QS and electrical Installation certificates

[Pete999]

Here's a first, I have a question regarding Domestic 3 signature EICs, not having much to do with Domestic for a very long time way before the onset of the introduction of the QS, as I understand it the 3 signatures required are: the Installation designer, the Installer and the QS, before the QS actually signs off the cert, does He/She have to carry out any testing? or is it just a case of checking the cert to ensure it has been filled out correctly?

 

[hightower]

Yes you can get the green version of this for non-NICEIC approved contractors

You're missing my point. You can get forms for certain installations in the regs we all follow, so why do I then need to go and buy a different set off a third party in order to certify a larger install? It's barmy. It's a bit like the fire regs saying "here's the form you've got to complete in order to comply, but be careful because anymore than 3 alarms in the system and you need a different form that costs money"

 

[Deleted member 26818]

The IET provides model forms for up to 100A supplies, they don't provide them for larger supplies.
You can use the model forms for up to 100A supplies or make your own based on the model forms.
For supplies greater than 100A you have to make your own.
If you don't want to make your own, you can use forms made by someone else.

 

[hightower]

The IET provides model forms for up to 100A supplies, they don't provide them for larger supplies.
You can use the model forms for up to 100A supplies or make your own based on the model forms.
For supplies greater than 100A you have to make your own.
If you don't want to make your own, you can use forms made by someone else.

So I can make my own that is essentially exactly the same except I'll remove the bit about "only for up to 100a". Jobs a good 'un then, why can't the IET do that for us then?

 

[Toneyz]

Why don't you just buy a book of electrical installation certificates based upon BS7671 from the local wholesalers ?If not someone posted on here forms you can fill in (I'm sure someone on here will be able to find them)if you are only after one

 

[westward10]

Make your own up Appendix 6 is informative.

 

[hightower]

Make your own up Appendix 6 is informative.

So my own could be a smoke packet with a couple numbers and a signature on it? That'd be to regs? I'm not trying to be funny.

I just don't get why we have to do a regs course and buy updated materials every few years and they can't even give us a blank form to go off - I've got to buy a pack from the wholesalers or buy from a third party that is making a killing.

 

[westward10]

Make your own, we do and keep them as simple as possible and our scheme provider has never had a problem with them. One thing the NICEIC will do is overcomplicate the most simplest of things but a smoke box may be difficult to duplicate /file
Appendix 6 will give all the info you require for your own format but this is not cast in stone.

 

[hightower]

Don't suppose you can share your home made jobby for research purposes, obviously sensitive data removed/obscured?

 

[Toneyz]

I hope you can open this please check it meets bs7671

 

[Risteard]

So I can make my own that is essentially exactly the same except I'll remove the bit about "only for up to 100a". Jobs a good 'un then, why can't the IET do that for us then?

You're missing the point - BS7671 is making clear that the model forms are only appropriate for small installations. For larger/more complex installations then these will need to consider all sorts of other things depending on the type and complexity of the installation. In essence, you need to make your own forms up.

NICEIC Approved Contractors obviously have access to the forms the NICEIC have made up with all of the different items in the Schedule of Inspections and other parts of the paperwork which they consider to be relevant to larger installations.

 

[hightower]

You're missing the point - BS7671 is making clear that the model forms are only appropriate for small installations. For larger/more complex installations then these will need to consider all sorts of other things depending on the type and complexity of the installation. In essence, you need to make your own forms up.

NICEIC Approved Contractors obviously have access to the forms the NICEIC have made up with all of the different items in the Schedule of Inspections and other parts of the paperwork which they consider to be relevant to larger installations.

If NICEIC can manage to make a form that they feel encompasses the requirements of larger installations, why can't the IET?

 

[Risteard]

If NICEIC can manage to make a form that they feel encompasses the requirements of larger installations, why can't the IET?

It's not that they couldn't - it's that they are suggesting that you need to use what is appropriate to the type/complexity of the installation. The NICEIC have decided to compile a standard form for their contractors with everything they consider necessary. It's not really a contradiction - they are different bodies with different purposes. JPEL/64 write the Regulations whereas the NICEIC assess registered contractors.

 

[Toneyz]

The IET are not producing a certificate for use just indicating what needs to be included in a draft formation.

 

[davesparks]

So I can make my own that is essentially exactly the same except I'll remove the bit about "only for up to 100a". Jobs a good 'un then, why can't the IET do that for us then?

If they made a model form for the schedule of inspections which covers everything then it would end up with a ridiculous number of pages, most of which would not be applicable to each installation you use it on.
How many additional pages of inspection items would you need just to cover every special location, and how often would you be filling in those sections as N/A?

It's only the schedule of inspections which normally needs to be customised to each job, and they do provide a list of examples of items to be inspected. Ideally the schedule of inspections which need to be carried out for initial verification would be drawn up by the designers of the installation.

Also you might find you need one schedule of inspections for the intake, and another different one for each individual DB.
If there are say 20 DBs in an installation then each one may need inspecting, testing and commissioning separately. So you'd want to record each inspection and test which is carried out.

 

[Sparkingmad]

I have been a QS for 18yrs and NICEIC stipulate that 1 QS is needed and any others are voluntary. When the main QS leaves and they are notified they ask the employer who is taking over the role if there are more than 1. The voluntary QS in most cases doesn't even get consulted by his employer if he wants the role full time and the NICEIC don't ask the nominated QS they just transfer the role over. I think this is totally wrong. When you are a QS it is very much your neck on the line every time a set of scribbled down test results are handed to you to then compile a full EIC certificate. I have been on the receiving end and it isn't a nice place to be. Especially when some of the sparks say that's your job or that's why your paid more than me. They don't realise that once they go home they forget about work till the next day. A QS or manager doesn't get that luxury as they are responsible for the H&S method statements and certification of their next jobs. In truth most QS are on the tools trying to do their own work on top of worrying about the quality of work of the other muppets and the certifying of the jobs. All this for £1 or £2 an hour more per hour. Only the really big firms pay what I think is a fair wedge for a QS and the role is an office based one with site visits to oversea the work force and quality of standards.