wrong polarity

[Farmelectrics]

carrying on our eicr from last week in office block we found wrong polarity in small workshop on ring main i no unreal but question it looks like maintenace guys have been using appliances but surely the breaker would trip as soon as a load was put on to this wrong polarity ring main we have corrected the ring main now but the guys said they have had no tripping problems your thoughts please

 

[Plonker 3]

No the OCPD wouldn't trip as current still flows, it would only trip and break the neutral connection if a overload occurred.

 

[ackbarthestar]

Why do you think that a reversal of phase and neutral will cause the breaker to trip?

 

[Farmelectrics]

ok thanks dilb was going to check breaker wasnt faulty had it in my head that when you plugged appliance in it would trip surely there must be some danger in having wrong polarity

 

[Plonker 3]

Yes there is danger, it is a C1 on a EICR, as if the OCPD trips the line cable remains live.

 

[Farmelectrics]

i dont now i thought about it ack not got thinking cap with me today weekend head on thanks for replys

 

[huntos33]

Does a c1 fault not have to recitifed there and then when you find it ? or the curciut isolated ?

 

[ackbarthestar]

Does a c1 fault not have to recitifed there and then when you find it ? or the curciut isolated ?

No, not necessarily , If the client wants to fry his wife when nobody's around. The most you can do is to warn the client that there is a dangerous fault which must be rectified immediately. The client then gives you the go ahead to proceed, or not.
We as electricians are not sanctioned by legislation.. bonkers or what !

 

[dichroic]

Does a c1 fault not have to recitifed there and then when you find it ? or the curciut isolated ?

Section 3 of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 and the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 effectively require them to endeavour to make safe, before leaving site and with the agreement of the user or owner, any dangerous conditions found in an installation.

It is not sufficient simply to draw attention to the danger when submitting the priodic inspection report. At the very least, the inspector must ensure that the client is made aware at the time of discovery of the danger that exists. An agreement should be made with the client as to the appropriate action to be taken to remove the source of danger (for example, by switching off and isolating the affected part of the installation until remedied).
before continuing with the inspection or testing.

Dichroic

 

[ackbarthestar]

Section 3 of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 and the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 effectively require them to endeavour to make safe, before leaving site and with the agreement of the user or owner, any dangerous conditions found in an installation.

It is not sufficient simply to draw attention to the danger when submitting the priodic inspection report. At the very least, the inspector must ensure that the client is made aware at the time of discovery of the danger that exists. An agreement should be made with the client as to the appropriate action to be taken to remove the source of danger (for example, by switching off and isolating the affected part of the installation until remedied).
before continuing with the inspection or testing.

Dichroic

Yes, I agree with the first part, the rest is your wish list......dream on.

If the client tells you to get lost then it matters not one iota what you think should happen

The most you can do is notify the client that their installation will 'fry them' if they do nothing about it. Then its up to the insurance companies and possibly the courts.....

 

[MarkieSparkie]

ok thanks dilb was going to check breaker wasnt faulty had it in my head that when you plugged appliance in it would trip surely there must be some danger in having wrong polarity

Of course there is a danger in reverse polarity, that is precisely the reason why you should test for it at least twice, once as the last of your dead tests and then again as first of your live tests. In most cases you will have also checked for correct polarity when conducting safe isolation at the supply main isolator and when EFLI (Zs) testing your final circuits.

 

[oldtimer]

How did this happen ie you look along the neutral bar and see blacks and blues then 2 reds/brown and the same at the fuses 2 black/blues ?

 

[Dan the spark]

How did this happen ie you look along the neutral bar and see blacks and blues then 2 reds/brown and the same at the fuses 2 black/blues ?

Probably just crossed in the back of the socket they tested, have to be a right plum to do it at the board

 

[Silly Sausage]

...have to be a right plum to do it at the board

Colour blind electrician strikes again.
One reason reason my mate went on to be a computing genius.

 

[kingeri]

Section 3 of the Health and Safety at Work Act 1974 and the Electricity at Work Regulations 1989 effectively require them to endeavour to make safe, before leaving site and with the agreement of the user or owner, any dangerous conditions found in an installation.

It is not sufficient simply to draw attention to the danger when submitting the priodic inspection report. At the very least, the inspector must ensure that the client is made aware at the time of discovery of the danger that exists. An agreement should be made with the client as to the appropriate action to be taken to remove the source of danger (for example, by switching off and isolating the affected part of the installation until remedied).
before continuing with the inspection or testing.

Dichroic

We as sparks cannot force a client to do anything, nor can we complete work without their permission. More than once I have sent very strong letters to clients and also sent a copy by registered post to myself to cover my backside.