Hoist control wiring help please!!

[P3dro]

Hello all,
I'm hoping some clever person can please help me...
I have an electric hoist set up and I would like to have another one to lift at the other end. I don't really want to operate 2 remotes so I want to wire them both into a terminal block and then into 1 remote....
That sounded simple in my head, until I opened both remotes to find the internal wiring was different!!
Both are from the same retailer but several months apart so I guess the manufacturer process changed.
Anyway, here are 2 pictures of the internals. Picture 1 (0612) is the remote I want to operate both hoists from but see what I found when I opened remote 2 in picture 2 (0613).....
Can anyone please tell me which wire's in pic 2 to connect to the wires in picture 1 so I can use just 1 remote?
Thanks,
P

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[snowhead]

Is this for Home use or Commercial use?

 

[P3dro]

Home!
The hoist lifts my loft hatch and I want another at the other end
Thanks,
P

 

[LeeH]

That's one epic loft hatch.

 

[P3dro]

Yes it is! And it has a pretty heavy folding staircase (not ladder) on it, hence the hoists...

So, any idea on the wiring please?
P

 

[Darkwood]

Do you have a wiring plan for the existing, it can work in several ways and until you reverse engineer how its wired and controlled we can only offer guesses.


Ignore just clocked the pics,looks pretty straight forward, only issue is to keep to regulations you may need to alter the existing to have electrical interlock too as well as the mechanical interlock that exists with the button only been able to be operated in one physical direction at a time.

 

[P3dro]

Thanks!
"Pretty straightforward" I understand....The rest is a bit fuzzy but I think I follow.
Both hoists operate in exactly the same way, so I could use remote 2 if it's better?
Any idea how to do it and meet regulation?
Does each remote meet regulation individually but once wired together will not?
Thanks
P

 

[FatAlan]

Is it a big loft hatch then? If you hook it up centrally one hoist would lift it straight up.

 

[P3dro]

Thanks fatalan but that's not an option.
It's got to be done with 2 hoists and 1 remote....What do you think on the wiring?
I'll post a video once it's done of it operating and you'll see why...
P

 

[Darkwood]

I misread your original OP it was slightly ambiguous but I get it now, just build a little control panel with 2 interlocked contactors that are operated by the pendant to run 2 hoists, the supply size and fusing will all need to be calculated to ensure it can handle the extra hoist.

 

[P3dro]

Oh so I can't for example just take the white wire in pic 2 and connect it to where the pink wire connects to in pic 1? Etc etc
I am a complete novice so would not know how to build a control panel!!
P

 

[PEG]

Hi,there are several issues to your request...but i will cover the obvious one. Your controllers have direction change built in,together with the motor capacitors. The two capacitors have different values,and would suggest different motors. Not impossible that they would work either...or fail.

Either way,your taking a step away from warranty,LOLER and PUWER

 

[davesparks]

Get a tube of superglue and stick the two remotes together!

 

[Wilko]

My daft Heath Robinson approach would be one hoist and some poly rope and pulleys.

 

[Darkwood]

Oh so I can't for example just take the white wire in pic 2 and connect it to where the pink wire connects to in pic 1? Etc etc
I am a complete novice so would not know how to build a control panel!!
P

TBH - with your own admittance that your a novice here I would say this isn't a job you should be undertaking, you need to build a control panel that users the pendant to control 1 x 4 (rated) N/O pole mechanically interlocked contactor that will be wired to ensure the 2 motors are seeing their relevant capacitor only and I find it strange you have 2 different rated cap's here, are the motor sized and speed matched exactly the same as you will have operational problems if not... the original thought is this would be a simple task which is why I assumed you bought 2 motors but the actual task of doing what you wish is a lot more complex, I would look also look into making up a new pendant too as an alternative where the spring return direction switch is multi - pole (4pole) this way you could do what you wanting but it will take a bit of research to source one and also it would probably mean housing your cap's in an enclosure on the motor and rearranging the wiring to suit.

Sorry we cannot offer a simple solution but what your trying to achieve here although easy for myself to russle up is quite complex for anyone not in the know, it will also set you back quite a bit of money too which ever method you chose.

 

[telectrix]

Get a tube of superglue and stick the two remotes together!

CLASSIC.

 

[PEG]

...It all seems like a lot of work,for a job my 84 year old father,can do with a hook on a stick

 

[P3dro]

Thanks guys, not the answers I was hoping for but answered nonetheless!

 

[SparkyChick]

@P3dro

A picture (or pictures) of the hatch in an open state may help. If the cable on one winch is long enough, and the winch is powerful enough, you may be able to achieve what you want using a mechanical arrangement of pulleys rather than a complex electrical solution.

For example, if you could arrange for the winch cable to run over a pulley in each corner of the hatch all you have to do is to arrange pulleys in the opening to guide the cable and a safe transit path for the cable (i.e. so no one falls over it) in the roof space. It would obviously take longer to close as there is more cable to move, but that sort of arrangement is doable and doesn't require matched motors or electrical modifications. You just have to ensure that the number of cables in each corner is equal otherwise you would get a different speed where the number isn't the same.

Sorry about the carp diagram, not quite up to @Richard Burns standards, but it illustrates the point.

View attachment 35641

 

[telectrix]

@P3dro

A picture (or pictures) of the hatch in an open state may help. If the cable on one winch is long enough, and the winch is powerful enough, you may be able to achieve what you want using a mechanical arrangement of pulleys rather than a complex electrical solution.

For example, if you could arrange for the winch cable to run over a pulley in each corner of the hatch all you have to do is to arrange pulleys in the opening to guide the cable and a safe transit path for the cable (i.e. so no one falls over it) in the roof space. It would obviously take longer to close as there is more cable to move, but that sort of arrangement is doable and doesn't require matched motors or electrical modifications. You just have to ensure that the number of cables in each corner is equal otherwise you would get a different speed where the number isn't the same.

Sorry about the carp diagram, not quite up to @Richard Burns standards, but it illustrates the point.

View attachment 35641

if my dad were still alive, he'd have done something like that, using hydraulic bits from shot down lancasters and halifaxes. ( that was his job in the RAF, making 1 good bomber out of 3 scrappers ).