Some pics from a FULL rewire.

[zedess]

Agreed a job to change half a dozen internal light fitting and one external light fitting,turned up this morning, was told the house had been fully rewired 6 months ago by one of them part p electricians..so i had a poke around as u do....

 

[HandySparks]

Last year we de-registered 518 contractors who failed to meet the strict requirements of enrolment .

Thanks for your reply.

Is it possible for you to give a breakdown on the reasons for de-registering? ie, were these all for failure to comply with the installation requirements of BS7671, or were there other sorts of non-compliance in this total (lack of insurance, lack of complaints register, failure to pay fee, etc)?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Thanks for your reply.

Is it possible for you to give a breakdown on the reasons for de-registering? ie, were these all for failure to comply with the installation requirements of BS7671, or were there other sorts of non-compliance in this total (lack of insurance, lack of complaints register, failure to pay fee, etc)?

...lol...
that`l be it....

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for your reply.

Is it possible for you to give a breakdown on the reasons for de-registering? ie, were these all for failure to comply with the installation requirements of BS7671, or were there other sorts of non-compliance in this total (lack of insurance, lack of complaints register, failure to pay fee, etc)?

Cripes, struck off for lack of a register - that is serious!

 

[Hiddo]

replace with a national register of qualified, competant electricians....no proper quals attained at college whilst undergoing sustained on site training (such as an apprenticeship)....then you aint coming in.....end of.

Who's to say this chap doesn't meet that criteria? They are supposed to check all that at annual assessment. I always show them my quals.

I would be happy for the NICEIC or building control for that matter to assess my work on a random basis whenever I notify a job.

It doesn't matter who did the work it's just ****e and the customer suffers again. Send the details to the NICEIC and let them get involved.

 

[ExLeccy]

I've just joined the forum and was struck by the similarity of this 'rewire' to one that my 90 year old mother-in-law had last year. I am an ex electrician from a full apprenticeship with the London Electricity Board back in the 1960's. Work to instal a new bathroom was organised by my sister-in-law and the plumber identified some old wiring. Despite my instructions to the plumber (over the 'phone whilst I was on holiday) to concentrate on his plumbing an electrician was called in who then disconnected the whole supply including freezer and started to remove consumer units etc. This electrician was supposedly fully qualified and a member of the appropriate organisation. My siste-in-law got rather intimidated by the situation and the rewire commenced an the price increased. I had a further few 'phone calls with the electrician and gave him a verbal spec some of which he ignored as it was perhaps a bit tricky for him. All-in-all a farce. I live some distance from mother-in-law and it was some time before I visited. The standard of work was similar to the 'photos and in some instances I consider to be potentially dangerous. The electrician supposedly issued a certificate but it was no more than something he filled in that he could have printed from the internet. I also took 'photos, contacted NICIEC? and did not get much help when I asked whether he was registered. Their on-line search facility was cumbersome and nearly useless. I also contacted the Citizens Advice Bureau about flagging the electrician as a potential danger but was told I would have to ensure I followed the problem up myself. The family had been trying to do this for the previous few months. My mother-in-law's health is bad and we considered any further follow up would be very disturbing for her.
I suppose I am surprised that with all of this protection that we are supposed to get from the Regulators etc. that this type of shoddy and dangerous and expensive work can go on. All of my work as an electricity board electrician was inspected and tested by a foremen. It seems that NICIEC should be doing similar regular checks for everyone registered with them.
Currently I am helping my son-in-law sort out some problems with his PV Installation (not installed very well- Over voltage and cables too small) also with his Solar Water heating- lots of issues here the last one to resolve is the flow and return to panels are wrong way round. Both supposedly installed by qualified tradesmen then inspected and certificates issued. The installers are either now not in that business or are evasive when approached. So have we got a lot of rogue tradesmen in this country and where are the so-called regulators and what recourse does a customer have.
Sorry for the rant but found this excellent forum when looking at the PV issues.

 

[trev]

@ExLeccy I think you and the OP had best get in touch with each other, sounds like you've had a proper series of nightmares mate.

 

[telectrix]

waking up next to me is a nightmare according to 'er indoors.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Who's to say this chap doesn't meet that criteria? They are supposed to check all that at annual assessment. I always show them my quals.

I would be happy for the NICEIC or building control for that matter to assess my work on a random basis whenever I notify a job.

It doesn't matter who did the work it's just ****e and the customer suffers again. Send the details to the NICEIC and let them get involved.

you mean like this guy did (NIC ENGINEER)...?
all a publicity stunt....they aint interested

and whats this about the chap who did that mountain of shyte `meeting criteria`..?

take a look at the pics man......
does that look like meeting any sort of criteria to you?

 

[ExLeccy]

Just some of the things done by a so called qualified electrician in Romford. And that was after 9months and 2 re-visits to correct and re-finish the job.


ford.

 

[trev]

Untill pic 6 I was just thinking shoddy.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Just some of the things done by a so called qualified electrician in Romford. And that was after 9months and 2 re-visits to correct and re-finish the job.
View attachment 19860View attachment 19862View attachment 19863View attachment 19864View attachment 19865View attachment 19866

ford.

their just nobheads arn`t they...

 

[telectrix]

pic 3 dangerous code C1. no excuse for the sake of a couple of bob for blanks.

 

[trev]

P3 wouldn't open. Missing blanks?

 

[Jdsparky]

I like where he labels sockets up as "plugs", nice bit of customer speak right there

 

[ExLeccy]

And no blanking plates in CU, nor protection on 2.5mm cable down wall, nor protection on cable to consumer unit. Shoddy work shows a careless worker. I have not looked further under floors and in loft. Some of the places are now inaccessible. If I had been 20years younger I would have found him and taken him to task very strongly by using my East end upbringing.

 

[Octopus]

And no blanking plates in CU, nor protection on 2.5mm cable down wall, nor protection on cable to consumer unit. Shoddy work shows a careless worker. I have not looked further under floors and in loft. Some of the places are now inaccessible. If I had been 20years younger I would have found him and taken him to task very strongly by using my East end upbringing.

So was he a scam member? did he leave a cert? have you seen it?

 

[shanky887614]

ive seen a guy in this state do a better install

[video=youtube;8YfchQ6Dckk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YfchQ6Dckk[/video]

 

[ExLeccy]

Probably a scam member. He issued an ICM4 'certificate'. Does that mean he is not a member of NICIEC. He did say he was qualified to test other installations. I don't fully understand the qualification and NICIEC membership requirements. I thought all electricians had to be a member. Just like Gas Safe for gas work.

 

[shanky887614]

Probably a scam member. He issued an ICM4 'certificate'. Does that mean he is not a member of NICIEC. He did say he was qualified to test other installations. I don't fully understand the qualification and NICIEC membership requirements. I thought all electricians had to be a member. Just like Gas Safe for gas work.

no you don't have to. you can simply contact building control to certify your work for a fee.

a lot of firms join a scam because its a lot cheaper and more convenient

 

[GLENNSPARK]

pic 3 dangerous code C1. no excuse for the sake of a couple of bob for blanks.

and not just this lack of understanding on new install either....
like i said the other day had a look at a report on an install in leeds that someone had carried out....
amongst other rubbish and falseties he`d given missing blanks a 3.....

 

[Rockingit]

Sadly the NICEIC's (and the others) argument about checking work (the 'driving' scenario) falls over because it assumes a base level of competence to start with. If you have been driving for 20/30/60 years it is reasonable to assume (yes, there will be exceptions, I know) that when behind the wheel you know what you are doing. It is not the same for an 18yr old just passed his test, and this is reflected in his insurance premiums.

Therefore, the analogy only actually works if the least qualified and shortest period served (which, for arguments sake we'll call a Electrical Trainee) are more closely supervised than someone who did all his quals and has continuously served for the last 20+ years. The latter then yes you CAN just inspect once a year, but the former I'd be wanting to have the inspector drop round at least every five notifications 'when next passing'. All it would take is five minutes to do a visual.

 

[Geordie Spark]

waking up next to me is a nightmare according to 'er indoors.

Posting on the same forum as you can be too!! :hump:

 

[NDG Elecs]

On a technical note, where have 4-5 of the bl00dy neutrals gone to in the DB piccy. Looks to be approx 12-13 lives and only 8 blues.... puzzled...

Just looked again...think camera angle and the mess of cables have tricked me!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Dear Forum - I have only just come across this forum thanks to someone sending a PM message.

I can assure you NICEIC takes very seriously any complaint made against one of our contractors. If the customer makes a complaint direct we will carry out a full investigation, send out an engineer to do an inspection and, if required, order the contractor to rectify the work to the required standard.

No complaint has been made on this occasion from the customer but if Zeddess would like to PM me the details of the contractor he/she believes carried out the work we can carry out an investigation and speak to the contractor direct if they are found to be at fault.
NICEIC operates the most robust and rigorous qualification for registration requirements in the UK. This includes, but is not limited to, an inspection of a representative sample of the companies work, assessment at their premises to ensure they have documentation and records, employs only competent persons to carry out electrical work, has evidence of required insurances and an, inspection of their equipment and premises. Most importantly, it includes a requirement for regular periodic inspections and assessments of organisations and principle named individuals to ensure standards are continually met.

However, in the same way that theDVLA cannot oversee every journey carried out by those with a driving licence, the NICEIC is not in a position to test every electrical installation itself. The fact that a contractor has been approved to work to best industry standards on assessment cannot, regrettably, rule out the possibility that a contractor, or someone working for them, may be negligent in relation to a specific electrical installation in the future. just as drivers have a duty of care to respect the rules of the road at all times, so do electricians assessed by NICEIC.

If a contractor is found to be guilty of not keeping within the rules and regulations for enrolement, they will be de-registered immediately. Last year we de-registered 518 contractors who failed to meet the strict requirements of enrolment .

I hope this answers some of the forum’s queries and as mentioned will be happy to deal with Zedess’ complaint. I would also urge any other contractors who come across similar incidents to get in touch with NICEIC direct – as we can only act on these issues if we are informed of them. Email [email protected]

Finally, apologies for lack of interaction on the forum lately – NICEIC will endeavor to check and respond, where appropriate, more regularly in the future.

well the entry assessment for any of the schemes is hardly taxing in any way, shape or form is it....after all its not meant to be...is it....

but feels its in a position to instruct folk on max. Ra values etc

 

[Deleted member 9648]

@ NICEIC ENGINEER.
If this work was carried out by an NIC approved contractor I am appalled that the NIC has allowed a contractor capable of such shoddy standards to be enrolled. I have worked for two NICEIC approved contractors continuously since 1978 and have always believed the NIC enforced rigorous standards. Your answer to this thread is frankly laughable, for all the fine words you are clearly unable to see the truth,that your scheme is not working if cowboys like this carry the NIC flag of 'excellence'.
Where does that leave bona-fida NIC contractors who uphold the standards they believe the NIC represents?......it leaves them tarred with the same brush,the lowest common denominator is always the one they will be associated with.
And as for the myriad Joe public viewing this forum......well they now know that employing an NICEIC contractor gives them no more assurance than employing Bob from down the Pub.
Thanks for that NICEIC....you have destroyed the credibility of a great organisation in your pursuit of profit.

 

[Octopus]

@ NICEIC ENGINEER.
If this work was carried out by an NIC approved contractor I am appalled that the NIC has allowed a contractor capable of such shoddy standards to be enrolled. I have worked for two NICEIC approved contractors continuously since 1978 and have always believed the NIC enforced rigorous standards. Your answer to this thread is frankly laughable, for all the fine words you are clearly unable to see the truth,that your scheme is not working if cowboys like this carry the NIC flag of 'excellence'.
Where does that leave bona-fida NIC contractors who uphold the standards they believe the NIC represents?......it leaves them tarred with the same brush,the lowest common denominator is always the one they will be associated with.
And as for the myriad Joe public viewing this forum......well they now know that employing an NICEIC contractor gives them no more assurance than employing Bob from down the Pub.
Thanks for that NICEIC....you have destroyed the credibility of a great organisation in your pursuit of profit.

And why would a trade organisation need to make a profit anyway? Surely it should be cost neutral

 

[Hiddo]

you mean like this guy did (NIC ENGINEER)...?
all a publicity stunt....they aint interested

and whats this about the chap who did that mountain of shyte `meeting criteria`..?

take a look at the pics man......
does that look like meeting any sort of criteria to you?

Your saying that a register of electricians with a boat load of qualifications hanging out their back pocket would stop this happening, it won't.

He probably has all them. Too many people on here when they see this type of work are quick to jump in and say its the polish lot or the Electrical Trainee brigade when the fact is I see this type of work from time served highly qualified electricians who for whatever reason don't give a ---- anymore.

Don't blame a building regulation and the introduction of schemes for this, nor should you seek it's abolishment to make things right.

This has been going on for years and its only now via the Internet and camera phone technology that people are able to share it with the big bad world.

I didn't say it wasn't bad and I didn't say that the NICEIC are interested. I was making the point that your idea that a register where only the ones with the most quals gets in wont solve it.

 

[ExLeccy]

I should have remembered that. Something about a 'competent person' doing the work. Four years ago I did add new installation in a new loft room for my daughter (new small consumer unit etc.) and established that the Building Control would inspect and issue the Building Regs cert. All this inclusive of the fee for the whole works. At the time they had to be prompted to accept this as there was a lot of confusion in this area. It is their decision whether to pay an Electrical inspector or not. Trying to arrange connection by the Elec supplier was fun as they did not seem very customer oriented. One person would come and disconnect whole supply, your electrician then makes the connection, and then some time later that day they re-connect the supply. I had added Henley blocks.
Last year my next door neighbour was asked by building control for an extra £180 to inspect the one extra light he was fitting in an additional toilet room. Later re-funded by building control as they did not seem to understand what the 'rules' were.
So are we saying that there are still 'cowboys' out there (not NICIEC). Does employing an NICIEC electrician protect the consumer?

 

[Andy78]

I should have remembered that. Something about a 'competent person' doing the work. Four years ago I did add new installation in a new loft room for my daughter (new small consumer unit etc.) and established that the Building Control would inspect and issue the Building Regs cert. All this inclusive of the fee for the whole works. At the time they had to be prompted to accept this as there was a lot of confusion in this area. It is their decision whether to pay an Electrical inspector or not. Trying to arrange connection by the Elec supplier was fun as they did not seem very customer oriented. One person would come and disconnect whole supply, your electrician then makes the connection, and then some time later that day they re-connect the supply. I had added Henley blocks.
Last year my next door neighbour was asked by building control for an extra £180 to inspect the one extra light he was fitting in an additional toilet room. Later re-funded by building control as they did not seem to understand what the 'rules' were.
So are we saying that there are still 'cowboys' out there (not NICIEC). Does employing an NICIEC electrician protect the consumer?

It is supposed to. As you can see by the content of this thread though, it is no guarantee, NICEIC or any other scheme.
As you can also see, their response to shoddy work is aloof at best, total apathy at worst.
They let any tom dick and harry in, but won't admit their system is not working.

 

[Octopus]

Bottom line, scams, or no scams, there is nothing to stop shoddy work.

If the scams were seen to inspect, intervene and uphold best practice etc, etc, then the slide downhill may stop.