Carbon Monoxide detector required?

[SSE]

Obviously these are needed in properties with fuel burning appliance but is there a need for them if the boiler is external? I've one plumber who always insists on installing them regardless if the boiler is inside or outside & one that says there's no need. Me personally would install one but maybe being over cautious. Thoughts?

 

[7029 dave]

I would say no, but no expert with gas.?

 

[shanky887614]

are there gas pipes in the property? if there is i would fit one.

 

[UKMeterman]

One of my school friends is the public face of the BG CO campaign, her son was killed by a faulty boiler next door.

 

[tazz]

All down to where you are in uk....England/Wales, not required....Scotland, it`s mandatory.
Being a life saver, I personally think all property with gas & solid fuel should be fitted with a CO detector

 

[telectrix]

we had it from the horses mouth. a BG "engineer" insisted that the CO detector was mounted by the boiler. this is in the garage, so if it sounded, nobody would hear it, apart from the mice.

 

[shanky887614]

we had it from the horses mouth. a BG "engineer" insisted that the CO detector was mounted by the boiler. this is in the garage, so if it sounded, nobody would hear it, apart from the mice.

i would if they were linked to ones in the house

 

[tazz]

This is the problem...no thought on operation or basically alerting the occupants of the house..any alarm is only as good as it`s operation.
Other problem here, is BS & BC insist on identifying the course of alarm, so smoke/heat and co must be either a different sound or displayed.....Aico have a wired and wireless control unit which just complies, but it sound every detector, so in my book everyone is alerted .

 

[rfears]

All down to where you are in uk....England/Wales, not required....Scotland, it`s mandatory
Being a life saver, I personally think all property with gas & solid fuel should be fitted with a CO detector

Tazz, I can't find the relevant regs, do you happen to know them? I've got a battery one installed in the house I rent out but it is not connected to the smoke alarms.

 

[myristate]

The regulation is:

BS EN 50291:2001 (Electrical apparatus for the detection of carbon monoxide in domestic premises. Test methods and performance requirements)

And

BS EN 50292:2013 (Electrical apparatus for the detection of carbon monoxide in domestic premises, caravans and boats. Guide on the selection, installation, use and maintenance)

There isnt a requirement to connect them with the fire alarm but it is best practise. The number of smoke alarms considered to fully protect your home depends on the layout of the house and the existing fire risks. The new regulations require one smoke alarm on each floor of the home and carbon monoxide alarms in high-risk rooms.

This is a minimum as ideally, for full protection, smoke alarms should be installed in every room of the house, excluding the kitchen, the bathroom and garage. Due to steam, fumes and dust in these locations smoke alarms are prone to false alarms. and in kitchen and garage a heat alarm is recommended.

Carbon monoxide alarms should be installed in any room with a burning fuel appliance as well as bedrooms.

When one smoke alarm is provided on each floor, it should be installed in the circulation area, making sure that the alarm can be heard from anywhere in the home and especially from the sleeping areas.

Each alarm should be, preferably, fixed to the ceiling in a central position and at least 300 mm from any wall or light fitting. If the unit is designed to be wall mounted, it should be fixed between 150 mm and 300 mm below the ceiling.

The following is an extract from the BS EN 50292 guidance that indicates the recommendations
for carbon menoxide detctors in a more concise way:

in every room that contains a fuel burning appliance,

at least 300 mm from any wall (for ceiling mounted alarms),

at least 150 mm from the ceiling, above the height of any door or window (for
wall mounted alarms),

between 1 and 3 m (measured horizontally) from the potential source of CO.
The standard also recommends that an alarm is not fitted:

in an enclosed space,

where it can be obstructed,

directly above a sink,

next to a door, window, extractor fan, air vent or similar ventilation opening,

where the temperature may drop below –5 ºC or exceed 40 ºC

Carbon monoxide alarms should be fitted on the wall at head height (breathing level) or on a tabletop or shelf if it is a portable CO alarm.



This last section on carbon menoxide position cant be understated. The testing and guidance that went into it shows that in almost 40% of all tests carried out in properties with them fitted they failed to detect in an effective and timely manner and the number one culprit was incorrect fitting height and position. Part of the issue is to do with the fact most people assume they go in a similar position as fire alarms which is incorrect. The science behind the gas and smoke is different and thus requires a diffrent methodology of placement

 

[rfears]

... carbon monoxide alarms in high-risk rooms.

Carbon monoxide alarms should be installed in any room with a burning fuel appliance as well as bedrooms.

The following is an extract from the BS EN 50292 guidance that indicates the recommendations
for carbon menoxide detctors in a more concise way:

in every room that contains a fuel burning appliance,

at least 300 mm from any wall (for ceiling mounted alarms),

at least 150 mm from the ceiling, above the height of any door or window (for
wall mounted alarms),

between 1 and 3 m (measured horizontally) from the potential source of CO.
The standard also recommends that an alarm is not fitted:

in an enclosed space,

where it can be obstructed,

directly above a sink,

next to a door, window, extractor fan, air vent or similar ventilation opening,

where the temperature may drop below –5 ºC or exceed 40 ºC

Carbon monoxide alarms should be fitted on the wall at head height (breathing level) or on a tabletop or shelf if it is a portable CO alarm.



This last section on carbon menoxide position cant be understated. The testing and guidance that went into it shows that in almost 40% of all tests carried out in properties with them fitted they failed to detect in an effective and timely manner and the number one culprit was incorrect fitting height and position. Part of the issue is to do with the fact most people assume they go in a similar position as fire alarms which is incorrect. The science behind the gas and smoke is different and thus requires a diffrent methodology of placement

Many thanks for the comprehensive and useful reply. I've chopped out the bits where I'm compliant While the positioning advise is somewhat contradictory ("should always be fitted on wall" vs "at least 300 mm from any wall (for ceiling mounted alarms)") I get the point that my single CO alarm ceiling mounted is probably inadequate and I will book a date with the tenant to upgrade the installation.

 

[myristate]

I understand your confusion. However it lies in the fact that some are designed to be fitted to the ceiling and others the wall. BSI offer the regulation in purchasable form but its a hefty chunk for what you need it for however If you are in any doubt. The health and safety exeutive have a number on their website that offers free advice for this. As well does the residential landlords association

 

[tazz]

I don`t know where the misleading quote of the 50292 has come from......Carbon monoxide is lighter than air, and diffuses evenly within air, and within a room, at a rapid rate. Co alarms can be positioned at ceiling level or high wall level....but follow manufactures recommendations. In any position or height in a room, a co detector will rapidly respond to Carbon monoxide as its spread within a room. Place it on a table, and its reaction will still be the same as on a high ceiling.

 

[rfears]

Bed time - I'll get back to you tomorrow

 

[rfears]

Thanks for all the replies - I've checked the documentation which clearly says ceiling mount centre of room if possible. I still need to mount another one in the other room with an open fireplace. I'll redesign the CO alarm side of things so they are mains powered and wireless like the heat/smoke alarms.

Thanks for the help everyone

 

[nickblake]

Fit then your protected , dont fit and your not protected and could be at risk

 

[ruston]

Fit then your protected , dont fit and your not protected and could be at risk

For the cost I wouldn't even think about it , especially with the AICO interlink system.

 

[Risteard]

For the cost I wouldn't even think about it , especially with the AICO interlink system.

You will need an alarm controller though in order to indicate the source of the alarm (i.e. whether smoke/heat or CO).