Certification for replacement of light fitting????

[Hellmooth]

Hi am I right in thinking that I can replace a light fitting without the need for a minor works certificate or any testing that needs certification?

 

[Paul.M]

No because you have not changed the electrical installation, only a load of the same value.

 

[Hellmooth]

Thank you, been having this discussion/argument with a colleague who was supposedly told this at his 17th edition update course by the lecturer.........I showed him the regs as well!

 

[Hellmooth]

And also would I be right in saying that to test an install and sign it off you don't actually have to be qualified but competent? I know some companies/sites won't accept this unless you have passed 2391/2395 but it isn't actually a regulation say, it just goes toward being competent?

 

[>>top.spark<<]

hi, a minor works certificate is for an addition or alteration to an existing installation.personally i would complete a minor works,after all it, is an alteration.. (taking the old fitting down and replacing it) and its always good practice to know that the installation is safe and sound, no harm in dedicating a little time with a tester.

 

[Lee Marshall]

no need for MW certification for that job IMO, you aren't actually altering the circuit.

 

[Paul.M]

Your not changing the installation/circuit, your re-newing/changing an accessory.

Long as the new accessory does not require more load than the original and that you have checked to see if the circuit in question is still fit for use and you have checked the bonding on the house then no need to cert.

 

[Hellmooth]

Thanks guys, I agree that testing the circuit to make sure it is sound is generally good practice but was just making sure that certification wasn't required, thanks!

 

[evansjrraves]

Our client has requested we fill in a minor work for every new light fitting and also if replacing a socket. This is not in the regs but that is what they have requested so we must do it

 

[Andrew Youll]

Where I work, we ask for all accessory changes to be recorded on a minor works, so there is a record of the repair and proof tests following a repair / accessory change has taken place.

 

[markc123]

GN3 state's that...Minor works is intended for such work as the addition of a socket-outlet or lighting point to an existing circuit, or for repair or modification.

Technically you are supposed to issue a MW for the change of a light - however you can't take everything in GN3, BS7671, OSG, health & safety ect... as gospel.

Obviouslly some posts above contradict this but hardly anyone will issue a MW for a like-for-like replacement - i know i definitley won't. Agree with testing the circuit to an extent if it looks terrible but if not, a tenner in the back pocket cash in hand cya later. Maybe incorrect me saying that, and some might disagree but that's how 95% of sparks work when it comes to replacing like for like.

If the client demands for a MW then that's a different matter.

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

So you do an IR test etc then?

hi, a minor works certificate is for an addition or alteration to an existing installation.personally i would complete a minor works,after all it, is an alteration.. (taking the old fitting down and replacing it) and its always good practice to know that the installation is safe and sound, no harm in dedicating a little time with a tester.

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

About time there was a standard "maintenance cert" that simply asks for Zs and basic inspection. Would help the confusion and may help safety wise.

 

[HODGE2330ATM]

If it's "like for like" there is no need for an Electrical installation certificate of any kind. Assuming its a domestic install, Part P of the building regulations covers this matter.

 

[markc123]

Hodge i think your statement is somewhat untrue.

Commonsense should prevail, if the reason for the like-for-like replacement is that something had burnt...then id issue a MW.

But in general i agree with you. #11 (my previous post) is where i stand on the matter.

 

[HODGE2330ATM]

Yes, you are correct. Perhaps from now on I should only come on here for advice and not to dictate haha

 

[markc123]

I wasn't having a pop lol. Just throwing my tupence worth in

Dictate all you want my friend

 

[NickD]

Looking at the wider picture as opposed just Regs/OSG/GN3 etc...if you fit but do not test-and-MWC it, and then the house burns down cos of a fault on that circuit, you are not going to be in a happy place law-wise - duty of care etc. Might have been nothing to do with the work you did but if you don't have the paper to show you did your best...

 

[AA410]

Hi all a couple of weeks ago i fitted a bathroom light like for like for an old dear and it was a good job i mwc because i found a nice burnt JB in the loft so it is a good idea to test

 

[Hellmooth]

Yeah I agree it is best to test, but it was mainly about it not being required certification.

 

[AA410]

I think post 18 is about right were do you stand if ya arse is on the line without the paper work minor works (extensions and modifications to a circuits ) why is it when you have your assessment the assessor make you undo switches and socket outlets and replace them ?

 

[NickD]

And the MWC contains virtually no overhead over and above the stuff you have to measure or find out if you're testing for safety anyway. Especially if you have your details prefilled in the bottom section.

 

[markc123]

With all due respect, if you've not MWC it, and providing you've not billed it(cash in hand)...who's too say you did it in the first place?

Obviouslly i don't mean that how it sounds, because everything you install, no matter how minor should be done with upmost care and attention.

If you know what you're doing, and you're confident in your own ability as a working sparks then the thought of anything going wrong shouldn't even cross your mind, i'm standing by what i said...and that is, unless the client demands for it / unforseen circumstances / visiable damage to whatever you're replacing like-for-like then there is no need for a MWC.

 

[markc123]

I think post 18 is about right were do you stand if ya arse is on the line without the paper work minor works (extensions and modifications to a circuits ) why is it when you have your assessment the assessor make you undo switches and socket outlets and replace them ?

Your assessor makes you replace them? :confused5:

Were they not functioning or something? Honestly never had that, the assessor makes me take things off to test so he can compare results with the test cert, but never actually replace anything.

Was it a new build and you'd stuck an old double-paintcovered-socket on and he was doing it out of basic general principle lol?

 

[NickD]

With all due respect, if you've not MWC it, and providing you've not billed it(cash in hand)...who's too say you did it in the first place?

Obviouslly i don't mean that how it sounds, because everything you install, no matter how minor should be done with upmost care and attention.

If you know what you're doing, and you're confident in your own ability as a working sparks then the thought of anything going wrong shouldn't even cross your mind, i'm standing by what i said...and that is, unless the client demands for it / unforseen circumstances / visiable damage to whatever you're replacing like-for-like then there is no need for a MWC.

I can see the logic of the argument that if there is no other evidence you were ever there, then don't issue a MWC because then you could deny everything, Baldrick. But you could be putting yourself on a very sticky wicket that way.

Contrariwise, if there is clear evidence you were there (invoice etc.) then my inclination would be to MWC. Bear in mind the law often takes the view that if there is no evidence, it didn't happen. You can have tested everything thoroughly but no certificate means that, in a courtroom, you tested nothing.

I don't think I'd ever want to dismiss the possibility of anything going wrong. Stuff happens out of our control. It's an uncertain universe.

 

[markc123]

In all fairness Nick you are correct, because GN3 does state that it should be done like-for-like.

However, i've done literally thousands of like-for-like replacements over the years, like everyone on here will of...and if i've MWC 100 of them...i'll be suprised. Maybe its just me set in my ways, but i can sleep at night because i know it's correct.

The way the world is nowadays though with all these Electrical Trainee, and 7dw i maybe better off doing a few more MWC, anyone could be altering anything afterwards with no certification.

May start issuing MWC for anything thats not cash in hand, i'll have a ponder.

 

[AA410]

One other thing is MWC is an other hours money a few moor pints down the pub