Don't laugh but...

[Ed Turner]

Is there anything out there that will allow one light (or more) to be controlled from two switching circuits?

In theory it is possible but before I start raiding the RS book for components and making something myself, I thought I'd find out if a ready made unit is available.

Client is having a conservatory + kitchen extension. There's going to be a bit of flat ceiling space in the extension that will have a few down lights around the edge of a big atrium window. Only problem is that half a dozen of these sit in the same pattern as the kitchen lights. I'd like to give them the option of having a bank of kitchen lights on, or the conservatory lights on, or both.

What say you (without laughing at me too much)?

 

[R1CH-G]

erm - a 2 gang 2 way switch setup?

 

[Ed Turner]

Not quite. 20 lights round the edge of atrium window. 9 lights in kitchen area, but the kitchen area extends under the atrium window lighting, so I want to bring some of them on with the kitchen lights.

 

[trev]

Not quite. 20 lights round the edge of atrium window. 9 lights in kitchen area, but the kitchen area extends under the atrium window lighting, so I want to bring some of them on with the kitchen lights.

Yeah so it's down to the way you wire them mate, you could have all of them on individual switches if you wanted, or all of them on 2Ws, all of them on 2W+intermediates, a bank of them on when the rest are off etc etc. There's any amount of permutations you could have.
I'm surprised that the question is being asked if I'm honest.

 

[Ed Turner]

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This hasn't turned out too well. 10 and 12 are above 20, you get the idea.

Lights 1 - 20 around the atrium window. All want to come on on one switch. Kitchen area is under lights 11, 13 - 17 and 21 - 29. I'd like to be able to turn these on as one bank as well. Problem is 11 and 13 - 17 are on a different bank.

 

[trev]

So wire them so they're on the same bank! That way you get the ones switched where and how you want them switched, come on mate it's not that hard.

 

[HandySparks]

One way, if two way switching is not used, would be to use double pole switches. Put the 'kitchen' lights on one pole and the 'shared' lights on the other. Similarly for 'extension' on one pole and 'shared' lights on the other. Wire the two 'shared' lights switches in parallel.

Alternatively, if switching from more than one location, install two relays in a box and supply the coils from the two lighting switched lines. Then connect the two set of contacts in parallel as above, supplying the 'shared' lights.

 

[PEG]

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This hasn't turned out too well. 10 and 12 are above 20, you get the idea.

Lights 1 - 20 around the atrium window. All want to come on on one switch. Kitchen area is under lights 11, 13 - 17 and 21 - 29. I'd like to be able to turn these on as one bank as well. Problem is 11 and 13 - 17 are on a different bank.

Wow,that is the hardest Sudoku i have ever done...on with me Pi digits now...

 

[GLENNSPARK]

christ this is almost beyond words...

 

[micknew]

christ this is almost beyond words...

Not if your a DIYer Glenn.

 

[guest119]

christ this is almost beyond words...

Yep, its numbers.

Boydy

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Not if your a DIYer Glenn.

then whats it doing in here....

 

[HandySparks]

christ this is almost beyond words...

What's your problem here, Glenn? I thought it was a reasonable question, if someone's not come across the requirement before.

It's like the question of running one bathroom fan off two light switches.

 

[D Skelton]

I think I know what the OP is getting at:

Say for example he has 16 spots like so:



And he wants to switch the left bank on like so:



But then he wants to switch the far bank on like so:



He will need a switching arrangement like so:



I'm making assumptions here but I am guessing it is the switching of one individual light (or more) on more than one circuit that is confusing him.

What I am assuming he is overlooking is that that one light (or more) that he wants to switch from two different circuits won't actually be switched from two different circuits at all, it will be it's own circuit switched in combination with other circuits.

In the example drawings above, the left bank of lights is actually two circuits, as is the right bank, and the near and far banks. The left bank's two circuits are switched on (with the illusion of it being one circuit), then when the far bank is switched on, the near left quarter is switched off and the far right quarter is switched on. The far left quater is left as is.

Now in defence of the OP, my example is simple, but when you have a dozen or so lighting arrangements in one room, it can get a little confusing if it isn't drawn out.

Let's say for example you had this layout of spots in a room however, more akin to the type of lighting layout I have in my mind that the OP is trying to describe:



And you wanted to turn the left line on like so:



Then turn the far line on like so:



Then the switching arrangement becomes slightly more tricky like so:



All because the four lights at the points in which the lines intersect need switching individually to achieve this effect.

In short, this is where lighting control systems such as Lutron or Rako come into their own. If you had this lighting arrangement in your kitchen the last thing you'd want is eight switches on the wall to achieve something that could be done by one button press.

A cost effective way of achieving this would be with four retractive push switches in the wall and a cheap PLC and expansion module to give you eight outputs.

To summarise, within a lighting layout, any lights or sets of lights at intersect points need individual control.

Maybe it would help Ed if you could post a rough picture of the lighting layout similar to the ones I have posted, then an individual image for each of the sets of lights that you want to control.

 

[Sintra]

christ this is almost beyond words...

Glenn take a :chillpill: it's not a bad question.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Glenn take a :chillpill: it's not a bad question.

what?...i havn`t done owt...

 

[HandySparks]

I think I know what the OP is getting at:
.
.
.
All because the four lights at the points in which the lines intersect need switching individually to achieve this effect.
.
.
.
To summarise, within a lighting layout, any lights or sets of lights at intersect points need individual control.

'
Yes, I think that's the OP's question. But I think that there are only three groups of lights and he only wants two switches: 'kitchen + shared' and 'extension + shared', hence my earlier suggestion of double pole switches (or relays).

 

[Silly Sausage]

I think I know what the OP is getting at:

Say for example he has 16 spots like so:

View attachment 23672

And he wants to switch the left bank on like so:

View attachment 23673

But then he wants to switch the far bank on like so:

View attachment 23674

He will need a switching arrangement like so:

View attachment 23675

I'm making assumptions here but I am guessing it is the switching of one individual light (or more) on more than one circuit that is confusing him.

What I am assuming he is overlooking is that that one light (or more) that he wants to switch from two different circuits won't actually be switched from two different circuits at all, it will be it's own circuit switched in combination with other circuits.

In the example drawings above, the left bank of lights is actually two circuits, as is the right bank, and the near and far banks. The left bank's two circuits are switched on (with the illusion of it being one circuit), then when the far bank is switched on, the near left quarter is switched off and the far right quarter is switched on. The far left quater is left as is.

Now in defence of the OP, my example is simple, but when you have a dozen or so lighting arrangements in one room, it can get a little confusing if it isn't drawn out.

Let's say for example you had this layout of spots in a room however, more akin to the type of lighting layout I have in my mind that the OP is trying to describe:

View attachment 23677

And you wanted to turn the left line on like so:

View attachment 23678

Then turn the far line on like so:

View attachment 23679

Then the switching arrangement becomes slightly more tricky like so:

View attachment 23680

All because the four lights at the points in which the lines intersect need switching individually to achieve this effect.

In short, this is where lighting control systems such as Lutron or Rako come into their own. If you had this lighting arrangement in your kitchen the last thing you'd want is eight switches on the wall to achieve something that could be done by one button press.

A cost effective way of achieving this would be with four retractive push switches in the wall and a cheap PLC and expansion module to give you eight outputs.

To summarise, within a lighting layout, any lights or sets of lights at intersect points need individual control.

Maybe it would help Ed if you could post a rough picture of the lighting layout similar to the ones I have posted, then an individual image for each of the sets of lights that you want to control.

I hope there isn't a single lamp out there D!

 

[D Skelton]

'
Yes, I think that's the OP's question. But I think that there are only three groups of lights and he only wants two switches: 'kitchen + shared' and 'extension + shared', hence my earlier suggestion of double pole switches (or relays).

If this is the case then yes, relays are the answer. Two of them is all he'd need. Or, a couple of double pole switches like you say.

 

[ian.settle1]

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10
11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29

This hasn't turned out too well. 10 and 12 are above 20, you get the idea.

Lights 1 - 20 around the atrium window. All want to come on on one switch. Kitchen area is under lights 11, 13 - 17 and 21 - 29. I'd like to be able to turn these on as one bank as well. Problem is 11 and 13 - 17 are on a different bank.

Thought it was a new version of countdown.