EICR

[UNG]

It is not clear which part of the UK the OP and rental property are located so as the regulations differ across England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland making it difficult to make any informed answer to the issue

As can be seen here Fire & CO Standards, Regulations & Legislation | Aico - https://www.aico.co.uk/technical-support/standards-regulations/ many regulations have changed in the last 5 years which may now include the provision of mains / tamperproof battery alarm detection while this could possibly upgraded DIY any lack of certification for the wiring would most likely be questioned

As mentioned earlier there seems to be no requirement for the certification of safety systems such as fire and CO detection in domestic rental properties, I would rather put a C2 on an cert which forces a lanlord to do something rather than be discussing it with people in funny wigs who are looking to apportion blame when somebody is dead

 

[Manoku]

Though a Satisfactory report isn't a requirement for compliance. Provided the remedials are done with written paperwork a second EICR isn't actually required.

Some might do it because they want an EICR that says Satisfactory though I would venture most are not aware that this isn't actually required, providing as I said the remedial work is done and documented within 28 days, or sooner if that is mentioned in the report.

I think it is much better to have an unsatisfactory EICR with remedial paperwork logged at least with that you get a record of what has been done. Helpful to future Electricians if that is available.

A clean EICR means all the remedial work done is now lost from documentation and the unsatisfactory EICR will be binned.

Got the report C2 for all of following and quote 277+VAT

1 2x mains powered smoke alarms outs life dated Jan 2025 need replacing
2 No CO2 detector in kitchen(gas hob) battery one needed
3 Missing skirt on ground floor entrance pendant, pendant needs replacing
4 Battery heat detector needs to be installed in kitchen due to kitchen size

I know DIY, is it something non-electricians are allowed to do?

I can do remedial work and keep a record with the above unsatisfactory report?

 

[westward10]

Assuming that is the skirt which holds the shade on none of that is Code 2. Only item 3 warrants a Code in the Report the others are nothing to do with the safety of the electrical installation. Whilst I may comment on item 1 items 2 and 4 are ridiculous.

 

[Manoku]

Assuming that is the skirt which holds the shade on none of that is Code 2. Only item 3 warrants a Code in the Report the others are nothing to do with the safety of the electrical installation. Whilst I may comment on item 1 items 2 and 4 are ridiculous.

How to challenge this?
Is it like MOT, can I take this report and ask any electrician to fix it?
Is anyone in this forum able to help?

 

[westward10]

I would be asking to quote a Regulation for each of those items from BS7671, if they can't they don't apply.
Anyone can do these works you do not need another EICR just proof it has been done. Unless they can provide evidence items 1,2 and 4 are departures from BS7671 you only need to correct item 3 although it would be prudent to correct item 1. If they fail to provide evidence then ask for a revised Report.

 

[Manoku]

I would be asking to quote a Regulation for each of those items from BS7671, if they can't they don't apply.
Anyone can do these works you do not need another EICR just proof it has been done. Unless they can provide evidence items 1,2 and 4 are departures from BS7671 you only need to correct item 3 although it would be prudent to correct item 1. If they fail to provide evidence then ask for a revised Report.

He refused to give details.

 

[westward10]

Do you have the EICR and have you paid them?

 

[mainline]

I would be asking to quote a Regulation for each of those items from BS7671, if they can't they don't apply.
Anyone can do these works you do not need another EICR just proof it has been done. Unless they can provide evidence items 1,2 and 4 are departures from BS7671 you only need to correct item 3 although it would be prudent to correct item 1. If they fail to provide evidence then ask for a revised Report.

From best practice note 4

Items worthy of note that do not warrant a classification code (These comments would not appear on the EICR)

• The absence of a fire detection and alarm system
(smoke/heat/carbon monoxide detectors etc)

 

[UNG]

I would be asking to quote a Regulation for each of those items from BS7671, if they can't they don't apply.

So doesn't reg 560.10 cover it, out of date detectors are a non compliance with BS5839-6 so an EICR can't be signed off as compliant with BS7671 although despite this I have seen many EICR's where the limitations exclude any checks of the fire detection equipment

Anyone can do these works you do not need another EICR just proof it has been done.

If it involves any wiring or alterations to the existing wiring it would need to be tested and a cert produced so it would exclude DIY unless they were suitably qualified and have the necessary test equipment

Unless they can provide evidence items 1,2 and 4 are departures from BS7671 you only need to correct item 3 although it would be prudent to correct item 1. If they fail to provide evidence then ask for a revised Report.

This just appears to be going round in circles and seems to condone / make acceptable a lack of or expired safety equipment in a rental property
Having looked through the PRS documents while gas and electrical certs are required nowhere does it mention certs for the fire and CO detection or was it intended that the electrical certification would pick it up although interestingly there is no mention of CO detection or it's British Standard in BS7671 or for compliance with the building regulations as far as I can see in BS7671

By not including fire and CO on our EICR reports are we leaving the door open for someone to further regulate our industry and who can and cannot install and maintain fire and CO detection in private and rental dwellings

I find it wrong when landlords come on here and the many other forums and social media trying to avoid spending money while happily taking the rent for properties that fall below the standards set out in the various documents, cost cutting landlords IMO just make more work and increase the costs to those landlords who meet the required standards

If issues are reported on by a diligent inspector then I see no need to diss their findings here or anywhere else a satisfactory report in essence means carry on regardless and unsatisfactory report makes someone sit up and take notice as it is often said ignorance is not a defence how does a dilligent inspector unsee something which may ultimately cause harm to someone while we argue the nuances of BS7671 and the scope of an EICR

 

[Brother Blue]

Having looked through the PRS documents while gas and electrical certs are required nowhere does it mention certs for the fire and CO detection or was it intended that the electrical certification would pick it up although interestingly there is no mention of CO detection or it's British Standard in BS7671 or for compliance with the building regulations as far as I can see in BS7671

CO alarms are covered by the landlords gas safety inspection, they are checked for being in-date and for operation (by pressing the button)

 

[westward10]

Yes but there is no carbon dioxide there full stop.

 

[Brother Blue]

Yes but there is no carbon dioxide there full stop.

From the information given, that there is a gas hob, there is no requirement for a CO alarm.

Also it is carbon monoxide, not carbon dioxide, they are two different gasses and, whilst both are harmful, there would not normally be any need for carbon dioxide detection in a domestic property.

 

[westward10]

From the information given, that there is a gas hob, there is no requirement for a CO alarm.

Also it is carbon monoxide, not carbon dioxide, they are two different gasses and, whilst both are harmful, there would not normally be any need for carbon dioxide detection in a domestic property.

My error it should have said monoxide.

 

[littlespark]

From the information given, that there is a gas hob, there is no requirement for a CO alarm.

Also it is carbon monoxide, not carbon dioxide, they are two different gasses and, whilst both are harmful, there would not normally be any need for carbon dioxide detection in a domestic property.

you can get carbon DIOXIDE monitors for these new "passive" houses... the ones with major insulation and zero ventilation that are supposed to keep the heat in. The CO2 needs to be monitored as theres no natural fresh air

I had a council planning guy give my customer a half hour lecture on why he needed such a detection device... until i pointed that that the property was 200 years old, with original single glazed sash windows.... No trouble with ventilation in there!

He too got his monoxide and dioxide mixed up

 

[Pretty Mouth]

Having looked through the PRS documents while gas and electrical certs are required nowhere does it mention certs for the fire and CO detection or was it intended that the electrical certification would pick it up although interestingly there is no mention of CO detection or it's British Standard in BS7671 or for compliance with the building regulations as far as I can see in BS7671

Yes, no certs needed for the smoke/CO alarms in rentals, the onus is placed on the landlord to make sure everything is in order. I had assumed that this is because the legislation is very easy to comply with for a layperson. I send this link to landlords, as sometimes they seem unsure about their responsibilities:

Smoke and Carbon Monoxide Alarm (Amendment) Regulations 2022: guidance for landlords and tenants

www.gov.uk

 

[Brother Blue]

you can get carbon DIOXIDE monitors for these new "passive" houses... the ones with major insulation and zero ventilation that are supposed to keep the heat in. The CO2 needs to be monitored as theres no natural fresh air

I hadn't realised they had any application in domestic installations.

I work in the entertainment industry and it is normal to see detection and alarm systems installed in theatres when large carbon dioxide based effects, fog jets, low smoke/dry ice etc, are in use.