G59 Process & Costs

[MorgansElec]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum and hoping someone might be able help me. We are a PV installer and to date have not done any G59 jobs but have some opportunities coming up. I contacted the relevant DNO to find out the process and costs and whilst they've given me the 89-page ENA guide for G59 I haven't been able to get any idea of the costs involved in G59 notifications. Has anyone been through this and if so, please can you give me a ball park figure on the notification costs? We're lookigng at a 25kW system. Thanks

 

[TedM]

Not sure what you mean just by 'notification costs'. DNOs are pretty much allowed to charge whatever they like for G59 connections. but they are required to provide written quotes that have some basis against their actual costs. Those costs are going to vary for each individual set of circumstances and whether, and how much, local network reinforcement is required to handle the new system.

 

[MorgansElec]

Ted, thanks for your response. Having not done a G59 it feels like we are working blind as to the potential costs involved whether it be the application process, commissioning or local network reinforcement. I'd appreciate any examples you may have. Are we talking in the hundreds or thousands £?

 

[JulianC]

Just embarking on a few G59 projects ourselves - driving blind a bit at the moment. First project is a 100kW farm set up. So far I have found out that we need a G59 relay/cabinet at the point of interconnection - budget cost around £2500 for the equipment. DNO or their representative are apparently required to be onsite to witness testing of said G59 gubbins prior to switch on - another £400-500 quid charge there. And the DNO also need to undertake a feasibility study of the supply we intend to connect into, to make sure it can handle it. That's another grand or so. Don't take this as gospel though, 'cos I only got handed this project yesterday after our PV Engineer left the company recently. I should know a bit more in the coming weeks and will let you know if there any significant changes.

 

[MorgansElec]

Hi Julian, that's really useful info, thanks very much and I'd certainly appreciate any other gems you come accross in the coming weeks. Likewise if I learn anything of use I'd be happy to share. Good luck with the project!

 

[TedM]

G59 costs fall into 4 sections:

1. DNO engineer to carry out a network survey and produce a report with recommendations
2. DNO charges to implementing any of the recommendations for improving network resilience
3. DNO attendance on-site to monitor pre-commissioning tests

4. And there will be additional costs for the system to meet G59 levels of protection (compared to smaller G83 systems)

1 and 3 you should be able to get a firm quote from your DNO at the earliest stages but should be in the ballpark that Julian says.

The cost of 2 will depend almost entirely upon the findings of the survey produced at step 1 and could, in some circumstances, be tens of thousands - but put a hard-hat on and go in and negotiate hard with the DNO (I have heard of plenty of instances of initial quotes being slashed dramatically).

And 4 will be a fairly standard price from whoever is supplying the kit.

 

[Markc]

Just embarking on a few G59 projects ourselves - driving blind a bit at the moment. First project is a 100kW farm set up. So far I have found out that we need a G59 relay/cabinet at the point of interconnection - budget cost around £2500 for the equipment. DNO or their representative are apparently required to be onsite to witness testing of said G59 gubbins prior to switch on - another £400-500 quid charge there. And the DNO also need to undertake a feasibility study of the supply we intend to connect into, to make sure it can handle it. That's another grand or so. Don't take this as gospel though, 'cos I only got handed this project yesterday after our PV Engineer left the company recently. I should know a bit more in the coming weeks and will let you know if there any significant changes.

Hi Julian,

It would be good if you could list a post in the future on this if you can. G59 requirements and costs will become more relevant to all of us as we progress. Not done any as yet but have been asked. Thanks.

 

[JulianC]

Will do Mark.

 

[Fullback38]

We have also been asked to price an installation 20+kw and 40+kw, would like to know more information when available please at least we can all work from the same format.

 

[MorgansElec]

Hi everyone, this is what I've found out to add to the info given by Ted and James above...

- G59 Relay panels cost from £1200-£1800 from a company call Solatest. They have standard packages or can help with design of a bespoke panel. Turnaround time 2-3 weeks standard.
- Solatest can also provide an engineers for testing - I spoke to a guy called Eddie Buckley there. Depending on the DNO their reports can negate the need for the DNO to come out and do a witness test. Some DNOs will accept their reports as they are experienced in this field. Cost for this is £450 + travel expenses and they need 10-14 days notice.
- If the DNO does come out they'll charge £500-£600.
- You can get a preliminary report form the DNO for £20-30

 

[JulianC]

Right-oh chaps. Sorry for the delay in coming back on this one. Various projects have died a death and been replaced by others but we currently have a 99kW system on the boil. Here's where we're at in relation to G59/DNO stuff:

Once I'd come up with a system design and was able to put some numbers to the potential output to the grid I downloaded the G59 application form from the DNO website (Central Networks in my case although I understand each DNO uses the same form).

The form is in two parts and for a typical PV project, only part one needs to be completed. This is straightforward: address and grid ref. of the installation, required point of grid connection, max. power/current output etc. Just basic stuff.

The form is emailed back to the DNO so that they can have a look at what you intend to do and work out whether or not their network can handle it. If it can, all well and good - off you go and install your system. If not, the DNO will provide you with a price for any network reinforcements required. There is no 'yes' or 'no' from the DNO about whether or not you can fit your system, it is a case of 'yes' but you may need to pay this much extra to reinforce the grid.

There are two options when sending your application in - a quick response (approx. 1 week) where you are provided with a rough estimate of any grid reinforcements required, to be confirmed at a later date (handy if your project is at preliminary assessment stage), or a more considered response where you are provided with an accurate costing for any work required - this takes around 6 weeks to come back. This is the option I went for and during the process I was contacted and asked for a layout plan of the installation (I sent back a googlemaps view with the location of the arrays and grid connection point marked on). An engineer contacted me last week to tell me that it looked like our system would be OK with no network upgrades required and official notification should be with me next week. This will also include a quote for the DNO to witness tests to the G59 relay at the system commissioning stage.

Costs incurred to date: zero

So, it looks like the extra costs incurred on a G59 project amount to (as stated in above posts), the G59 relay and associated equipment, someone to test the G59 equipment and the DNO to come out and witness that test.

 

[SolarCity]

Thanks for the comprehensive response, Julian. It's very appreciated.

 

[Markc]

Thanks Julian. It's good to know the in's and out's. Keep us up to date if it goes ahead

 

[MorgansElec]

Thanks very much for the update on this Julian, it's quite a relief to hear that it's relatively simple process. Good luck with the 99kW system!

 

[SolarG59]

I have just received a quote from UK Power Networks who want £70k to upgrade a substation before they will allow us to connect 100kW system for our Customer. Does anyone know how to begin negotiations with these people, as this figure is going to be a deal breaker for sure.

 

[wozzit99]

Hi Solar g59

Find out from Power Networks what work is contestable and noncontestable. Contestable work can be contracted out to another contractor who might be able to do it cheaper, the noncontestable work has to be done through Power Networks.
Wozzit

 

[SRE]

I've just had a conversation with our DNO who has been really helpful but I nearly fell off my chair when I heard about the cost of upgrading the network. This particular property we're looking at is going to need a new transformer for installation of just under 50kw. Transformer 20k ish, about 8k per 40m span for the overhead and a new lv service @ 3k.

Now I'm confused, there's a cheaper option of another 3 phase which will take 12kw (+ 3.9 x 2 on another 2 single phases) but how on earth is anyone making money out of the Feed in Tariff on larger systems with these costs (transformers etc)??? By the time you've paid tax and interest on loans there isn't much to play with. What am I missing??????

 

[TedM]

Haggle. I've known some work done by DNOs to end up at half the original quote. Their first price always seems to be a try-on.

 

[Kram]

Very enlightening, i hope all goes well.

 

[PV Martin]

Hi Guys,
i know this is an old(ish) thread but i am just scouting around for G59 stuff as i am about to start a 120kW install, albeit on multiple properties, if i have any advice from what i have learnt its take the time to go and sut with your DNO, i am not saying it will always be the case but i went and spent 1 1/2 hours with a very helpful chap (Jan from UK power networks) and he basically took me through the whole process (including checking all the Cables and substation constraints) in front of me live, i indicated to him the inverters that i had built into the design, he went on the internet there and then to check the G59 certification and agreed my whole installation there and then, by the time i got home he had emailed me to say that the project has been approved!

just goes to show sometimes if you put in a bit of effort (and 1 1/2 hrs of time it saves so much aggro.

dont really help anyone just thought i would let y

 

[daytona600]

Pre-built & tested G59 control panels pre-set up for local DNO in IP65 enclosure
10kw £ 1149 50kw £ 1495 or bespoke to any size required to 5Mwp 240/415v LV & 3.3/40.5kv MV
micro/string/central/container inverters 200wp - 1.6Mwp
webservers/dataloggers/displays/snow & de-icing systems/yield&performance monitoring
pv modules - pv switchgear - pv mounting systems

pv 1 electrical Alex Nangle(Electrical) Ltd, Fuses,Fusegear,Circuit Breakers,control Gear, High Voltage - index

 

[officerdibble]

Hi Guys,

It's the G59 commissioning that I am a little puzzled about. Do you need to have someone with an injection test kit to demonstrate to the DNO during commissioning on site? and if so how much does this cost? or does the G59 certificate that comes with the inverter do.
I know they ask to be present when the commissioning happens.
Also G83/1, to what level of generation do the DNO's accept inverters to that standard?

Questions, questions.

Any Assistance would be most welcome.

Thanks

 

[SibertSolar]

@officerdribble - we would recommend a particular 3rd party that we work with for G59/2 on-site testing/commissioning. They charge around £460 per day for this service and the average system takes approx 4hrs to complete. Mileage costs are extra I believe. One of the the reasons to outsource this service is that the testing kit can cost around £11K to purchase. Standard factory test certs are provided with the G59/2 relay enclosures but an additional test report can be provided to show trip times etc for an additional cost of £100 per unit. Some DNOs will accept such a report for sign-off as oppose to on-site testing. Apparently, for systems at the smaller end of the spectrum, some DNOs will accept the G59 inverter test reports but I am told that it is rare and additional G59/2 relay enclosures are required by most DNOs.

If anyone needs G59/2 relay enclosures then we can provide any size solution within a couple of weeks lead-time.

Andy

 

[kmcgold]

Under 50kw external g59 relays not required until March 2012
I have used SMA 15000tl inverters changed the freq setting to 51.5 Hz and .5 sec guidance notes 2
with the dno permission
speak to the dno most are very helpful

 

[sunny]

I have found a company that can supply all the help and guidance regarding G59 panel building and witness testing, they were very clued up on all aspects and a good price. The panels had a relay, contactor and generation meter etc built in to one panel so the install was very easy and neat looking. They are RBB ELECTRICAL based in Nottinghamshire but do work all across the UK