EV - after few pointers please

[sythai]

Hi Guys

Not been involved with any EV much as of yet. But time has come now with new LABC regs that we have to fit on all new builds.

Did the Niceic (think was 1/2 day) EV course 2-3 years ago, then signed myself up as a pod-point installer.

That was about it ! All the OLEV paperwork put me off, looked like a right headache !
Also bit concerned that wouldn't be able to figure out set up for any app to get it working after install - I'm not so tecchy, but my younger employees probably figure it out.

Did get quite a lot of customer enquires and if we ever went quiet was going to do a few - never happened though.

So all we've done to date is put in the 1st fixes ready for any EV point at a later date.

Few questions if you can help on please :

- Do I have to inform ENA / WPD of every EV point we install, even if has load limiter on it ?

- How do I inform ENA / WPD is this all on line ?

- Can I install any EV charger or do I have to be 'approved by the manufacturer' cant remember the benefit of becoming 'pod-point installer maybe longer warranty ?

- Any EV chargers you recommend the are easy on final set up assuming they all have an app ? Or maybe there's some that dont need the an app.

- Been specified on a new build coming : Zappi 22kW, anyone fitted this unit ?

Thanks Sy

 

[plugsandsparks]

Gavin fits these, he may help as well.

Yes to DNO and yes to online.
EV chargers need to be installed by a competent electrician to BS7671, following MI's as well.
Zappi 22KW , assume 3 phase version. They are OK, although i have had callbacks for phantom issues with voltage, it may have been a bad batch of incorrectly configured voltage reference values.
Zappi can be configured using the front panel.
Hope this helps

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Hi Guys

Not been involved with any EV much as of yet. But time has come now with new LABC regs that we have to fit on all new builds.

Did the Niceic (think was 1/2 day) EV course 2-3 years ago, then signed myself up as a pod-point installer.

That was about it ! All the OLEV paperwork put me off, looked like a right headache !
Also bit concerned that wouldn't be able to figure out set up for any app to get it working after install - I'm not so tecchy, but my younger employees probably figure it out.

Did get quite a lot of customer enquires and if we ever went quiet was going to do a few - never happened though.

So all we've done to date is put in the 1st fixes ready for any EV point at a later date.

Few questions if you can help on please :

- Do I have to inform ENA / WPD of every EV point we install, even if has load limiter on it ?

- How do I inform ENA / WPD is this all on line ?

- Can I install any EV charger or do I have to be 'approved by the manufacturer' cant remember the benefit of becoming 'pod-point installer maybe longer warranty ?

- Any EV chargers you recommend the are easy on final set up assuming they all have an app ? Or maybe there's some that dont need the an app.

- Been specified on a new build coming : Zappi 22kW, anyone fitted this unit ?

Thanks Sy

I did the EV course and signed up with OZEV. I did a couple of jobs that involved claiming back the grant and then decided I would not do any more as the amount of paperwork and bureaucracy was just crazy. However, some people like @Gavin John Hyde had a really good system going with regards claiming the grant and it sounds like it worked extremely well for him. I think he used something called EV comply which I get the feeling did a lot of the work for him.

I think you'll find the first few times you are pulling your hair out and then you'll either get into a rhythm or run away screaming.

Sorry for not answering any of your questions, but even thinking about them starts getting me into a confused mess again

 

[Welchyboy1]

Similar story to me
I have just started fitting Podpoint chargers
Done about 5 so far and really like them

I don’t know about your area but mine is mainly EDF which have a really easy application online for notifying

Some new build sites have a different DNO though so you need to check the particular site for who’s got the electrical infrastructure

The app and technical side is not too bad once you have done a couple just allow more time on the first one you do
Watch a few YouTube videos and make notes before you do it

If your not an approved installer for the particular manufacturer I don’t think you can access the commissioning portal so in other words you can’t install them unless you do the course, which is good in my opinion

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Sorry for the late replyto this one been in cyprus. Still use ev comply to capture info at initial enquiry and if customer isnt lazy be used for dno ena form too.
That said its just as quick to print it off and use a trusted pen and take a picture and email to dno.
Other than that ev charging is no major issue. People over think it.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Hi Guys

Not been involved with any EV much as of yet. But time has come now with new LABC regs that we have to fit on all new builds.

Did the Niceic (think was 1/2 day) EV course 2-3 years ago, then signed myself up as a pod-point installer.

That was about it ! All the OLEV paperwork put me off, looked like a right headache !
Also bit concerned that wouldn't be able to figure out set up for any app to get it working after install - I'm not so tecchy, but my younger employees probably figure it out.

Did get quite a lot of customer enquires and if we ever went quiet was going to do a few - never happened though.

So all we've done to date is put in the 1st fixes ready for any EV point at a later date.

Few questions if you can help on please :

- Do I have to inform ENA / WPD of every EV point we install, even if has load limiter on it ?

- How do I inform ENA / WPD is this all on line ?

- Can I install any EV charger or do I have to be 'approved by the manufacturer' cant remember the benefit of becoming 'pod-point installer maybe longer warranty ?

- Any EV chargers you recommend the are easy on final set up assuming they all have an app ? Or maybe there's some that dont need the an app.

- Been specified on a new build coming : Zappi 22kW, anyone fitted this unit ?

Thanks Sy

Podpoint are cheap and jt shows with no option to integrate with renewables.

I would recommend myenergi zappi or hypervolt as go to options, if something stylish then simpson and partners as they look top notch and very well priced,

The syncev units from bg/synce ev arent too bad and cheaper than pod point for myself in rexel.

Podpoint would be bottom for myself in terms of offerings

 

[Welchyboy1]

Podpoint are cheap and jt shows with no option to integrate with renewables.

I would recommend myenergi zappi or hypervolt as go to options, if something stylish then simpson and partners as they look top notch and very well priced,

The syncev units from bg/synce ev arent too bad and cheaper than pod point for myself in rexel.

Podpoint would be bottom for myself in terms of offerings

Thats interesting what you say about Podpoint, I am booked on the november Mienergi installer course in november, so was goin to look into those chargers also

so would you recommend looking at supplying/fittinmg them in the future then?

Are they similiarly priced to podpoint?

 

[sythai]

Thanks Guys... appreciate all your replies there ;-)

 

[sythai]

Podpoint are cheap and jt shows with no option to integrate with renewables.

I would recommend myenergi zappi or hypervolt as go to options, if something stylish then simpson and partners as they look top notch and very well priced,

The syncev units from bg/synce ev arent too bad and cheaper than pod point for myself in rexel.

Podpoint would be bottom for myself in terms of offerings

Hi Gavin..... do you know if have to be approved installer for zappi and/ or any other makes ? Thanks Sy

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

Hi Gavin..... do you know if have to be approved installer for zappi and/ or any other makes ? Thanks Sy

Strictly speaking no. For most you can literally buy and fit but some require you to do training to be able to fully commission the unit such as eo
That said you often get installer discounts which make it worthwhile.

 

[David Prosser]

WPD are now National Grid.

 

[PeakSteve]

Although an NICEIC member I did the NAPIT training course which was 2 days. (How can the NICEIC possibly do it all in 1/2 day???!)

OLEV/OZEV were indeed a nightmare to deal with, rejecting any EVHS grant claim they could possibly fault (one claim was rejected twice for not filling-in Section D! Their form, applicable at the time, had no Section D! Then I failed a OLEV random inspection for various bogus reasons: I hadn't "labelled" the 3-phase conductors (they were brown, black, grey and blue)! I had used a non fire-rated cleat to support the supply cable: (The 6mm armoured 5-core cable ran from the floor to a DB some 500mm above affixed with an SWA gland. There was NO cleat and their inspector had been looking at the wrong cable!)

However the Homecharge scheme is no more, and the Workplace scheme is much simpler.

YES you must inform the DNO! (This should have been covered in the training!)
See: Connecting electric vehicle chargepoints to the electricity network - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/connecting-electric-vehicle-chargepoints-to-the-electricity-network/connecting-electric-vehicle-chargepoints-to-the-electricity-network

In essence, if your EVCP might cause the TOTAL INSTALLATION LOAD to exceed 60 Amps you must seek permission beforehand from the DNO via a Notify and Connect application. If your installation does NOT cause the total load to exceed 60 Amps (e.g. using a current limiting system as built in to various charge points like the Zappi) you may notify the DNO afterwards via a Connect and Notify form.
In the former case, my local DNO (SSE) would send out an inspector to check the supply suitability, then issue an "OK to Connect" letter.

 

[sythai]

Although an NICEIC member I did the NAPIT training course which was 2 days. (How can the NICEIC possibly do it all in 1/2 day???!)

OLEV/OZEV were indeed a nightmare to deal with, rejecting any EVHS grant claim they could possibly fault (one claim was rejected twice for not filling-in Section D! Their form, applicable at the time, had no Section D! Then I failed a OLEV random inspection for various bogus reasons: I hadn't "labelled" the 3-phase conductors (they were brown, black, grey and blue)! I had used a non fire-rated cleat to support the supply cable: (The 6mm armoured 5-core cable ran from the floor to a DB some 500mm above affixed with an SWA gland. There was NO cleat and their inspector had been looking at the wrong cable!)

However the Homecharge scheme is no more, and the Workplace scheme is much simpler.

YES you must inform the DNO! (This should have been covered in the training!)
See: Connecting electric vehicle chargepoints to the electricity network - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/connecting-electric-vehicle-chargepoints-to-the-electricity-network/connecting-electric-vehicle-chargepoints-to-the-electricity-network

In essence, if your EVCP might cause the TOTAL INSTALLATION LOAD to exceed 60 Amps you must seek permission beforehand from the DNO via a Notify and Connect application. If your installation does NOT cause the total load to exceed 60 Amps (e.g. using a current limiting system as built in to various charge points like the Zappi) you may notify the DNO afterwards via a Connect and Notify form.
In the former case, my local DNO (SSE) would send out an inspector to check the supply suitability, then issue an "OK to Connect" letter.

Thanks Steve - appreciate the useful info

FYI - 1/2 day course was a load cra@p from what I remember back then, sure it was more of a sales pitch (and sponsored by) for Rolec

 

[slartybartfast]

Well if its a new build, then its a new connection. There is no real cost difference between single and three phase connection so may as well order 3 phase. When you order the connection, they ask what it is for (new build, 3Ph EVSE etc) and put it on the quote and job, so you have effectively informed them. Simples.

 

[123]

Well if its a new build, then its a new connection. There is no real cost difference between single and three phase connection so may as well order 3 phase. When you order the connection, they ask what it is for (new build, 3Ph EVSE etc) and put it on the quote and job, so you have effectively informed them. Simples.

Might find there to be a significant cost difference between a single phase and three phase connection, sometimes in the tens of thousands more.

 

[MJPD29]

Well if its a new build, then its a new connection. There is no real cost difference between single and three phase connection so may as well order 3 phase. When you order the connection, they ask what it is for (new build, 3Ph EVSE etc) and put it on the quote and job, so you have effectively informed them. Simples.

Sounds like you haven't been involved in organising supplies to buildings before, there will likely be a very large difference In single and three phase.

 

[Midwest]

There's a guy on our new build estate, that managed to secure a plot for his own purposes. He's had a 3 phase supply connected. Has solar panels on the roof, and apparently intends to have 2 x ev points. I'd love to have a snoop around inside! Only ever seen his van parked outside.

 

[slartybartfast]

Might find there to be a significant cost difference between a single phase and three phase connection, sometimes in the tens of thousands more.

Having had domestic 3 phase installed myself last week (in addition to existing 1Ph), it involves:

Customer digging suitable trench and laying ducting to edge of boundary.

Plus DNO doing the following:

1. Dig & expose cable in pavement / road
2. Run cable to property (via customer pre-installed ducting)
3. Terminate at property with cutout & fuses
4. Perform live joint to cable in pavement.
5. Test.
6. Reinstate pavement / road

Quite a labour intensive process that taps into three phase in the street. Essentially the only difference between single phase and three phase installation is the number of cores in cable and at the joint, size of the cut out (1 fuse vs 3 fuses). Bottom line - the cost difference between a 1Ph and 3Ph installation will be nominal...

Quotes from DNO are free, so when asking for price, as for both 1 & 3 Phase installation costs.

 

[MJPD29]

Having had domestic 3 phase installed myself last week (in addition to existing 1Ph), it involves:

Customer digging suitable trench and laying ducting to edge of boundary.

Plus DNO doing the following:

1. Dig & expose cable in pavement / road
2. Run cable to property (via customer pre-installed ducting)
3. Terminate at property with cutout & fuses
4. Perform live joint to cable in pavement.
5. Test.
6. Reinstate pavement / road

Quite a labour intensive process that taps into three phase in the street. Essentially the only difference between single phase and three phase installation is the number of cores in cable and at the joint, size of the cut out (1 fuse vs 3 fuses). Bottom line - the cost difference between a 1Ph and 3Ph installation will be nominal...

Quotes from DNO are free, so when asking for price, as for both 1 & 3 Phase installation costs.

That's the only difference between single phase and 3 phase? Are you sure? Jesus this electrical carry on isn't so complicated after all

 

[slartybartfast]

That's the only difference between single phase and 3 phase? Are you sure? Jesus this electrical carry on isn't so complicated after all

Yes. Absolutely.

Here's a couple of pix showing junction with main 3P feed in street - my 3P feed curls to bottom and right to the yellow safety tape.

I went large on equipment housing. This will house meter (yet to be supplied), 3P Distribution Board, an EVSE, mains sockets & WiFi Mesh Repeater (the gear that is there is temporarily wired in and fed from house). All this talk about not being able to house equipment in the meter box is utter tosh....the DNO were fine with it and went as far as to say this was a bloody good idea.

Also had no issue having 3P installed as well as keeping the existing 1P feed, which is neat as metering for each will be completely separate.

Currently looking into a 60-240KW DC charger with 2 x CCS connectors - so will be able to charge 2 x Teslas from flat to 100% in an hour at same time - Autel MaxiCharger DC Fast 60-240kW - EV Charging - Sevadis - https://sevadis.com/product/autel-maxicharger-dc-fast-charger-60-240kw/

And yes, this is domestic !