Opinion on board change

[magnoliafan89]

hi guys

Got asked to look at a job the other day. Sweet old lady in a mobile park.
She had an electrician come out to do a socket. After doing it he told her the consumer unit needed changing as it was dangerous. This obviously worried her.

He quoted £600. Hadnt dine anything else other than change a socket front, no tests etc.

So anyway She asked around. I went round and had a look. 4 circuits re wirable fuses and a 30Ma rcd protecting it all. Bonds in place etc etc.

I'm doing a full test as a given anyway but I've informed her that if after a full test everything is all a okay I wouldn't feel any need to change it. If however lots of work needed doing following the test I would but the test would be part of the work so qouldnt charge for the test and then the board.

Well the electrician who told her has now approached me and said I was wrong and shouldn't have poached his work.

Whats your opinion straight up change the board or if nothing is wrong just leave it??

 

[Baddegg]

Tell him it’s a tough old world, do what you think best in your professional opinion mate......

 

[pc1966]

The "best practice guide #4" has a section on page 17 titled "Items that should not be listed as non-compliances with BS 7671 and do not require reporting (Mythbusting)" and it specifically says:

• The use of rewireable fuses (where they provide adequate circuit protection)

So unless the original electrician can justify his assertion that is it "dangerous" with reference to the wiring regulations and the specifics of the installation he can take a hike (the polite version of where to stick his tools).

Now I don't like to see rewirable fuses because most folk without any electrical DIY skills struggles to replace the wire safely! More so as often it was the lighting circuit that went when a bulb blew so you had to try and do it in darkness...

So in cases like this (assuming no significant EICR codes come up on test/inspection) I would personally suggest fitting a set of the Wylex plug-in MCB replacements for the fuse carriers as a fast and cheap means of providing better fault protection and resetting for ~£100 instead of the ~£600 for a board change. But make it clear it is not so much about safety as about making it easier for her to reset if anything does go.

 

[Vortigern]

As you know to say change is needed is a criminal offence under trading standards law where it is not needed. You also know electrical safety org best practice guide again does not recommend change necessarily where it is shown there is no problem. So test and charge and make recommendations. I hope you explained it is a free economy and people are free to get a second quote. And then told him to f the f off politely of course?
[automerge]1595764708[/automerge]
Sounds like he wants the money. Not a real honest tradesman as he did not test and establish any problems. £600 is a rip off for four circuits.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I would ask the old lady if she is clued up with regards changing fuses in the old BS3036 fuse holders. If she looks at me as if I'm treating her like a child and starts telling me how she's been changing them before I was born then I don't think a board change needs to be discussed .

If however she is not so confident I would advise a board change but I would make it very clear that there is nothing unsafe about her present board (assuming tests ok) and that it is just a good idea.

It would be a good idea as it would :

• help contain a fire.
• easy to reset compared to a fiddly fuse wire.
• just the RCBO would trip rather than all circuits.

making it easier for an elderly person.

As for the electrician, if they are charging £600 just for a board change then they deserve to lose the work. However, perhaps that includes bonding and other bits. You're not stealing his work, you're just giving a quote and then the lady can choose who she prefers based on price and the general feel she got for each of you.

 

[davesparks]

For 4 circuits in a static caravan £600 seems a bit steep unless there are some other factors involved.

Do you have the other person's recommendations in writing? Chinese whispers may be at play here!
If you say to a customer that they may want to consider changing a CU as it is quite old and technology has improved they may, without understanding or thinking, tell their neighbour that you told them the CU is out of date and needs changing. Next thing you know their neighbour is on this forum talking about the electrician who told their neighbour that their CU must be replaced because it's old and dangerous.

 

[magnoliafan89]

Cheers for the reply guys. Think I may just go the route of test and if all is OK plug in breakers.
[automerge]1595780508[/automerge]

For 4 circuits in a static caravan £600 seems a bit steep unless there are some other factors involved.

Do you have the other person's recommendations in writing? Chinese whispers may be at play here!
If you say to a customer that they may want to consider changing a CU as it is quite old and technology has improved they may, without understanding or thinking, tell their neighbour that you told them the CU is out of date and needs changing. Next thing you know their neighbour is on this forum talking about the electrician who told their neighbour that their CU must be replaced because it's old and dangerous.

I crawled underneath the thing to have a good nose around. All bonds in place earth rod is there even did a quick ze whilst there and got 52 ohms.
I've told her I'd do a test and if its all good its fine to leave as is but if not I can change it (for a lot less rhan £600 too!)
He view was quite morbid, she said she was too old to really gain any benefit from having a new one so why shell out considering she may kick it a year or two down the line...i did say to have more of a postive outlook but hey ho!

 

[telectrix]

if tests come back OK, i think the plug-in 60898 MCBs are the logical answer without costing a fortune. i carry a few on the van for just this scenario. just need to educate the old dear that it's "up for on"

 

[littlespark]

gees, how OLD is this static caravan?
I think the van should have rotted away by now.

If this van is on a proper holiday site, or home park it will be plugged in to a 16A socket, that should have RCD protection.

 

[telectrix]

gees, how OLD is this static caravan?
I think the van should have rotted away by now.

If this van is on a proper holiday site, or home park it will be plugged in to a 16A socket, that should have RCD protection.

think the OP means a Park Home. semi-permanent and not made from recycled bean cans. loads of these about , some upgraded, some still on a 40A fuse with a rewireble CU.

 

[davesparks]

gees, how OLD is this static caravan?
I think the van should have rotted away by now.

If this van is on a proper holiday site, or home park it will be plugged in to a 16A socket, that should have RCD protection.

Static caravans are not subject to the same regulations as touring caravans and will not be connected by a 16A plug and socket arrangement.

 

[littlespark]

I worked on a caravan site for 10 years, @davesparks and can assure you every one of them was plugged in, exactly the same as the tourers.

 

[telectrix]

our static is plugged in as above, but, like tourers it's a metal can. Park Homes are different. they are a non-metallic structure.

 

[littlespark]

I think I just read a later post in thread when someone mentioned a static caravan. I just took that as the description.

maybe the OP can clarify the supply.

 

[magnoliafan89]

I think I just read a later post in thread when someone mentioned a static caravan. I just took that as the description.

maybe the OP can clarify the supply.

Its supplied by a DNO deffo not plugged in. Sorry for calling it a caravan I'm just so used to calling it that as my old man lives on the same park and I like to wind him up by calling it that

 

[davesparks]

I worked on a caravan site for 10 years, @davesparks and can assure you every one of them was plugged in, exactly the same as the tourers.

The two sites I've worked on had hard wired mains supplies.

 

[UNG]

It would be a good idea as it would :

• help contain a fire.
• easy to reset compared to a fiddly fuse wire.
• just the RCBO would trip rather than all circuits

What is with the paranoia of consumer unit fires that was started by the LFB and perpetuated by the IET with the 17th amd 3 changes, I was talking to a retired fireman recently who had 30 years service in who said in all that time he had only been to one shout involving a consumer unit fire, I've seen 2 that were smouldering and didn't get to a full fire mainly because of the acrid smell in 40+ years I've been in the trade. The conclusion of the conversation was that poor installation was a big part of the cause and not the materials that the CU was manufactured or assembled with

 

[telectrix]

What is with the paranoia of consumer unit fires that was started by the LFB and perpetuated by the IET with the 17th amd 3 changes, I was talking to a retired fireman recently who had 30 years service in who said in all that time he had only been to one shout involving a consumer unit fire, I've seen 2 that were smouldering and didn't get to a full fire mainly because of the acrid smell in 40+ years I've been in the trade. The conclusion of the conversation was that poor installation was a big part of the cause and not the materials that the CU was manufactured or assembled with

that's what we all think. limp wristed installers unable to tighten terminals correctly. it's also led to the paranoia of torque screwdrivers. whole thing is trying to fit a band-aid to an arterial bleed.

 

[UNG]

that's what we all think. limp wristed installers unable to tighten terminals correctly. it's also led to the paranoia of torque screwdrivers. whole thing is trying to fit a band-aid to an arterial bleed.

I prefer the talk screwdriver "yep that's tight"

 

[pc1966]

While it makes perfect sense to me that a CU should be made from fire resistant materials, it also is obvious that a 20 year old CU in not suddenly going to burst in to flames for no reason!

As said elsewhere, a general decline in the practical skills of those doing the work is the main underlying reason to worry

 

[happysteve]

If the PSCC is >2kA, I'd be swapping out the 3036's for something else in consideration of breaking capacity.

 

[pc1966]

If the PSCC is >2kA, I'd be swapping out the 3036's for something else in consideration of breaking capacity.

A good point, though I suspect unlikely on a caravan park supply.

 

[happysteve]

A good point, though I suspect unlikely on a caravan park supply.

Agreed. Occasionally sites have their own transformer, though.

 

[pc1966]

Agreed. Occasionally sites have their own transformer, though.

True, you might have a surprise waiting in that case!

As always, assumption is the mother of all major screw-ups, so always safest to measure the PFC/PSSC and find out if anything is suspiciously low or worryingly high.