Position of rails/clamps

[moggy1968]

regardless of any interpretation of the regs, there is always the proviso of following the manufacturers instructions. SMA say bond, so it needs bonding, as per 7671 with 10mm.
You cannot bond using the earth (CPC) from the T&E (which, at 2.5mm is too small as well, have a look in the SMA manual).
They have used the wrong brackets so anything to overcome that will be a bodge. Trimming will help, but it's not ideal. They should have used a bracket something like these from K2

 

[moggy1968]

these ones, wouldn't upload on my previous post!

 

[wstevew]

Moggy,
They did have the tiles sitting flush before, they had ground out the nib at the end of the tile where the brackets were.

Firstly he said he was going to bond to the TWE and I stopped them. They then went and brought a reel of 4mm. and I stopped them and said it should be 10mm (thanks to you guys).

Now their technical guy is supposed to be in contact with SMA because his interpretation of the regs. is that it is not needed. I was just forwarding what SMA stated in response to fixing the 601 events.

 

[wstevew]

Much flatter. I doubt I can demand a specific mounting system, my tiles are not solid they have a kind of hook at the end (im sure you know what i mean).

 

[JulianC]

Did wonder about the size of the bonding but, since this isn't bonding in the traditional BS7671 sense (ie. not extraneous blah blah blah) I am not entirely convinced it has to be 10mm. Nor am I convinced that it hasn't. Any thoughts other than using 10mm 'cos we always do and there's a roll in the van?

 

[moggy1968]

Much flatter. I doubt I can demand a specific mounting system, my tiles are not solid they have a kind of hook at the end (im sure you know what i mean).

yes, that might be pushing your luck a bit! Grinding the tiles is treating the symptom rather than the cause but is better than nothing, as I say, IMHO thats a bodge but will probably do the job.
It's more of an indication that when you look at the whole package, it doesn't look good, and the fact there was a rush on in november may excuse having to compromise on using the ideal kit it doesn't really excuse poor workmanship

 

[dansk]

can be easily fixed by using Renusol SS hooks.

 

[SolarCity]

Did wonder about the size of the bonding but, since this isn't bonding in the traditional BS7671 sense (ie. not extraneous blah blah blah) I am not entirely convinced it has to be 10mm. Nor am I convinced that it hasn't. Any thoughts other than using 10mm 'cos we always do and there's a roll in the van?

The Dti guide says 10mm bond.

 

[sambotc]

Probably a similar company to those who are offering 4kwp systems for £6k at the moment, and I wonder why..

 

[wstevew]

Is this join bad too?

I assume that join was previously hidden under the panels, at first today the end clamps were only held on by 2-3mm of rail and I guess that gap is the result of extending the rail out to fit the end clamps.

Now dreading what i am going to find tomorrow when I get home. Im at work and they are comming back to sort out the brackets by taking it all off again and grinding the tiles.

They apparently are waiting for a call from SMA to clarify if they need to bond the array and with what cable regarding the 601 events.

 

[Earthstore]

Oh dear again, I get the feeling that you know what is good and what is not, you just need a second and third opinion.

Is it possible to have a day off tomorrow, that will surprise the fitters....

Oh yes, that joint should really be butted together, it does depend on how long the joining section is though.

It is hard to believe really that a company would work all day to put something right, and in many ways make it worse.

I am sure you will get there.

 

[wstevew]

No Im back at work, but feel I now need to see every stage to make sure nothing wrong is hidden below the panels.

I have no idea how long that joining piece is and assume that to fix it they may need more rail.

 

[whinmoor]

This is turning into a soap opera. One thing going wrong after another. It doesn't look much better at the end of the day compared to the start. It sounds like your installer is pretty clueless tbh.

You have my sympathy because a customer parting with thousand of pounds really deserves better workmanship than is being displayed here. It's really not your job to be telling the installer all about the errors they've made and how to rectify them!

 

[SolarCity]

I thought the installer has already agreed to bond the array? Didn't he say he would do so but it was effectively your responsibility if it stopped working?

 

[wstevew]

They were going to bond to the ac isolator until I said no. Then 4mm to the block by the meter. I said it should be 10mm and it was handed over to their technical manager who I am told is waiting for SMA to call.

 

[wstevew]

Sitting in the lounge. Load of crashing down the chimney. Gone up ladder. Whole top pad on chimney broke loose. And I have to go to work ffs.

 

[sambotc]

How? Are they sweeping your chimney as compensation? I really can't see how they could do this unless they are messing around up there.

I'd be half tempted to tell this lot to F off and you send them the bill for someone competent to come around and sort it out.

I really think you should phone in sick!

 

[wstevew]

Front, another broken gutter bracket.

 

[wstevew]

Side

 

[wstevew]

Back

 

[Earthstore]

Oh dear, now what are you going to do?

That should have been one of the easiest roofs to install on, what a cock up...

 

[wstevew]

I have the project manager comming out tomorrow morning. He seems to think its OK from his photos.

I need a list of problems.

Including the grindings from the tiles over the panels.
Rails badly lined up.
Ground outs too big.
Morter at sides.
Broken gutter bracket again.
Some broken tiles (not in photo).

And a chimney with the top concrete slab part sheared from the mortar and left sitting on top.

Oh and no bonding

And they sent an email saying scaffold comming down tomorrow weather permitting.

 

[matt25]

I know we all start somewhere and learn from mistakes etc (i am far from perfect and always learning!) but this is by far the worst catalogue of errors ive ever come accross, almost to the point of it being unreal, the installer must be so embarressed. Not that ive ever tried but counldn't Real or Mcs help the client?

 

[Earthstore]

Just curious, where do you live?

And tell them to leave the scaffold..

 

[wstevew]

South east Essex

 

[wstevew]

I can't stop the scaffold if they want it down as contract for it is theirs. But I do know what company it is.

I also have two broken porch tiles which is blamed on them dropping something when erecting it.

I have said to the project manager itvis in their interest to leave it while we discuss it.

 

[wstevew]

I know we all start somewhere and learn from mistakes etc (i am far from perfect and always learning!) but this is by far the worst catalogue of errors ive ever come accross, almost to the point of it being unreal, the installer must be so embarressed. Not that ive ever tried but counldn't Real or Mcs help the client?

Sad thing is they are now getting dismissive. Blaming stuff on roof etc.


That's why I have requested the project manager come see it himself. Rather than rely on installers photos on their phone.

 

[Earthstore]

That argument is not acceptable, that is why we survey before we install, if the roof is in poor condition, this should be taken into account when pricing the job, if there is loose mortar it should be photographed before any work starts.
Speak to building regs if you can, send them the photos of the holes they have left due to grinding/type of bracket used, ask them if it would fail building regs under part C for water ingress.
This may give you a little more ammunition.

Of course, the project manager may agree when he sees how poor the work is....

 

[wstevew]

I think he has photos but the installers may not have taken pictures of all.

He seemed unaware of the chimney too.

How do I speak to building regs. And probably too late now.

They did a survey and took photos before.

 

[Earthstore]

How do I speak to building regs. And probably too late now.

You phone your local planning office and ask to speak to building control, they should have somebody there that can answer your question, as I said see if you can email the pics of the tiles with the rather large holes, and ask for their opinion.
The ones up here are quite helpful...

 

[whinmoor]

I think I would ask for the whole lot to be taken down and start from scratch. Some of those tiles have had far too much material removed and need replacing. The brackets under the array are probably not sitting correctly either. It's quite possible that some of the roof kit has been damaged by all the upheaval so that could do with being inspected imo.

 

[babba]

Whats the name of the company, PM please.

 

[dansk]

if you had been in Yorkshire i would have come and put it right for you FOC simply because those guys do not have a clue. In fact im coming to Maidstone in a couple of weeks, me and my man will put that right for you once and for all.

 

[lancemoto]

Unbelievable!! And Why? Surely there would have been some kind of care taken this time round as it was a re visit. What’s happened to having al ittle Pride?
The chimney was probably damage when the horses’ were tied to it!! Ha-ha

 

[SRE]

Might be useful to have an experienced roofing guy to comment on the state of the roof as it is, not from a water ingress point of view Building Regs would be great for that but more related to the condition of the roof etc. We always user a roofer and we've had some difficult roofs to fit on but none have been ground out like that!

Good luck.

 

[Noshocks]

Is that schletter framing? I have done lots of these roofs and have always used the flat 150mm wide stainless hooks from K2, no grinding needed as only 3mm thick Moggies picture is a roof we both worked on using these brackets). As already said some of those tiles must be replaced as too much has been removed, there are so many things wrong that I am not surprised its tripping if the electrics to the same poor standard. I have made many of these mistakes in the last two years, not all on the same roof though.

 

[wstevew]

@babba As much as I am tempted at the moment, It is their reputation that will be tarnished, if their competition can show clients "This is what they do!" they will not get much work. I think we will have to see how it goes from here.
@dansk Very kind of you (unless of course you have had too many beers LOL).
@SRE At the moment i could do with all the help I can get.
@Noshocks, I have no idea what the rails are, brackets look like Renusol.
@Noshocks, Electrical side looks ok to me, though originally they wired east/west into 1mppt.

Thank you all sooooooo much for your support.

I am so stressed out over all this, exhausted due to lack of sleep etc. (probably just like you lot pre Dec 12th).

I called earlier and requested he come out and see it for himself, and he is due to arrive at 7:30am tomorrow as I am back at work again after taking this afternoon off.

 

[dansk]

the offer still stands, no problem.

 

[moggy1968]

I would be interested to know how many screws they used to fix the brackets to the rafters. I'm not familiar with this mounting kit but to get a bracket canted over like that I wonder if it has been fixed with only one screw. As for the rest, well, I can't add anything to what has already been said, what a disaster area!

Tim, no this was another roof, not one we both worked on! We have used the K2 though on another project we worked on together, I have used them a lot on this type of roof, they're a piece of cake!

 

[wstevew]

I would be interested to know how many screws they used to fix the brackets to the rafters. I'm not familiar with this mounting kit but to get a bracket canted over like that I wonder if it has been fixed with only one screw. As for the rest, well, I can't add anything to what has already been said, what a disaster area!

Tim, no this was another roof, not one we both worked on! We have used the K2 though on another project we worked on together, I have used them a lot on this type of roof, they're a piece of cake!

I do hope there is more than one screw per bracket!