Regulations/requirements regarding communal lighting

[danb86]

Hi,

I've just bought a new build flat in a 8 storey building. The communal lights from floors 1-7 are permanently on as well as two staircases. The ground floor is the only floor with PIR's installed.

It's such a poor design and I can't see how this can be allowed in this day and age. In no way is it efficient. The downlights used have an average life of 25,000 hours so will need replacing in 3 years. The flat owners pay the communal electricity bill so I doubt the developer/landlord cares about it too much.

I've contacted my local council who told me the building was signed off by a private firm of building control inspectors. Before I contact them or the developer I want to get some more knowledge about any regs.

So my question is, have the developers not met any regulations or requirements regarding the communal lighting for energy efficiency or something similar?

Every new build I've worked in we've always installed PIR's in communal areas. It's such a bad design.

Appreciate any help. Thanks.

 

[Nigel]

Perfectly fine.

 

[DPG]

Seems a big waste of energy to me.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Seems a big waste of energy to me.

For the OP?

 

[DPG]

For the OP?

Having lights on when it's not dark.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Having lights on when it's not dark.

Thought you meant a waste of energy for the OP trying to fix it.

 

[DPG]

Not at all, no. I can't see the sense of wasting electricity and also reducing the life expectancy of the luminaires.

 

[danb86]

Thought you meant a waste of energy for the OP trying to fix it.

Out of interest why do you suggest it might be a waste of time? I'm half expecting myself for it to be a waste of time. The developer's have had the building signed off, they've sold the flats, we're paying the communal electricity bill, £££££££ in their pocket. Who cares about their lights? Onto the next job with poorly designed communal lighting...

Figured I might as well at least try!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Because I doubt very much you’ll get anywhere.
Sounds like it’s been wired incorrectly, or the contractor just couldn’t be asked to fit PIRs on the other floors.

 

[DPG]

I disagree. If it is wrong then it should be mentioned.

 

[The Ghost]

Presumably you have the flat on a dread lease? Is there a management company? If so why not take it up with them. Do you have natural daylight on each floor i.e. a window if not maybe that is why they are on? As to regs well there is the idea a switch is required for isolation of the item and there is a requirement of EE in the regs none of which are enforceable legally as they are not statute. There may be a fault and it needs checking perhaps. Again raise with the MC.

 

[Stspark]

Poor design and/or install. Should be designed to provide longevity for the building and energy efficiency. Approved Document L maybe of use?. As you've stated it's a new build it's likely under a new build warranty and maybe worth contacting NHBC or the likes of. Also be worth discussing with the director of the RTM (if in place) who will represent the leaseholders, management company and the building landlord.

 

[Squid]

I think the lights are the least of your worries if the building has 8 floors then the lift is the major worry.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I disagree. If it is wrong then it should be mentioned.

Mention it as much as you want, but who’s going to do anything about it?
Only way to get the builders to do anything, will be to take them to court.
Council won’t do anything.
The private company that signed it off can’t do anything, they’ve already signed it off.
The electricians who installed it won’t do anything as they’ve already been paid and their customer’s already accepted the work.

 

[DPG]

Mention it as much as you want, but who’s going to do anything about it?
Only way to get the builders to do anything, will be to take them to court.
Council won’t do anything.
The private company that signed it off can’t do anything, they’ve already signed it off.
The electricians who installed it won’t do anything as they’ve already been paid and their customer’s already accepted the work.

You're very vocal on this one Spin - wasn't you who wired them up was it?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You're very vocal on this one Spin - wasn't you who wired them up was it?

Just something I’ve encountered in the past.

 

[danb86]

Presumably you have the flat on a dread lease? Is there a management company? If so why not take it up with them. Do you have natural daylight on each floor i.e. a window if not maybe that is why they are on? As to regs well there is the idea a switch is required for isolation of the item and there is a requirement of EE in the regs none of which are enforceable legally as they are not statute. There may be a fault and it needs checking perhaps. Again raise with the MC.

There are windows all up the staircases and windows at either end of the corridors on each floor. As for a switch, there is a key switch to test the emergency lights, so I guess that ticks that box. Don't think the management company have really taken the building on yet, I heard one of the site managers moaning about it in the lift the other day. Pretty sure I'm paying them though.

Poor design and/or install. Should be designed to provide longevity for the building and energy efficiency. Approved Document L maybe of use?. As you've stated it's a new build it's likely under a new build warranty and maybe worth contacting NHBC or the likes of. Also be worth discussing with the director of the RTM (if in place) who will represent the leaseholders, management company and the building landlord.

I've had a (very) quick flick through Doc L but couldn't find anything specifically relating to this that I could make sense of at least. May need a more thorough look. The warranty is with ICW, it's another path I'll probably go down at some point. What do you mean by RTM?

I think the lights are the least of your worries if the building has 8 floors then the lift is the major worry.

The lift works fine. And my sofa fits in there too

 

[Squid]

Wait until the lift needs replacing and the management company ask for £10k from each resident.

 

[The Ghost]

RTM right to manage company formed by the lessees. Also known as enfranchisement. Why not contact the firm who did the electrics and raise a query about the lights. Rather than go in with the big guns blazing straight away?

 

[snowhead]

As above re contacting the Electrical installer.
I'd go to them with a subtle approach;

Express your concerns about the future running costs.
Ask whether it would be reasonably simple to put PIR control on each stairway and each landing and what their costs would be to do it, as you're considering contacting all the flat owners to see if they would be interested in paying for the alterations.

(subtle bit), ask whether it was ever considered at the design stage and if so was it rejected for compliance reasons (is so what) or cost.

 

[pirate]

This is not unusual, I have met exactly the same scenario in 2 blocks of flats I have had rentals in. In the newest one, the canopy lights over the entrance were on 24/7 and were those awful screw-in reflector type. They lasted a couple of weeks, then the factors sent an electrician to change the lamps...very expensive...but the builders said they simply passed the spec on to the electricians who installed them and all the other lighting fixtures on the upper floors. After a year of call-outs every few weeks, at £80/visit plus parts, we simply employed an electrician to retro-fit better gear, which was very successful. A retired banker in one of the flats kept spare lamps and fitted them as required. We were lucky that all the flat owners were cooperative!
If I had any real advice to offer here, then it is this:
Do not waste your time going to the NHBC on such an issue.

 

[danb86]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Why not contact the firm who did the electrics and raise a query about the lights. Rather than go in with the big guns blazing straight away?

I agree, it's never been my intention to go in guns blazing. I'm currently trying to gather as much info/opinions/experience regarding the lights before deciding how and if to approach it. I must be honest I'm reluctant to contact the electrician for reasons I won't go into - nothing personal, a fine job was done in my flat!

Ask whether it would be reasonably simple to put PIR control on each stairway and each landing

There are service hatches throughout the corridors for access to stopcocks into each flat. I've had them down and had a peek myself. It's definitely possible to add PIR's with minimal damage. The staircases are probably a different story.

By chance, I bumped into the building control inspector today on a site I've been working at and quizzed him about the lights. He believes Document L requirements haven't been met and said he would start by contacting the building inspectors who signed the building off. Something the council also advised when I spoke to them the other day.

We were lucky that all the flat owners were cooperative!

This is something I feel I'll definitely need if anything is to get done about it. I'll definitely be bringing it up in the future with the other residents.

Still not really decided how to move forward with it but I'm sure as hell gonna try something at least.

 

[The Ghost]

Kosnic do a nice replacement for existing light internals so no need to rewire the lights. The one I am thinking of stays lit at 10% so you can see ahead so to speak and lights to 100% nearer to it. Also has lux control for daylight off. It can all go into the fitting modifying that without problems. I have had to attend poor or confused use of dip switches it may just be something like that and just needs tweaking.