Removing socket outlets

[Bobby34]

Hi guys and girls,

A client is moving their kitchen into another room that currently has a few sockets in it.

The sockets are currently on a ring final circuit that covers every socket in the house.

They've asked me to add sockets for the new kitchen so I am going to run a new kitchen circuit most of which can be done in trunking as it will be behind the units going in.

My question is am I able to replace the faceplates of the old sockets not being used/covered with a blanking plate and use maintenance free wago's inside so the ring for the rest of the house is not affected? (3 sockets I think that will end up behind units)

Thanks in advance

 

[simpson93]

Yes. But obviosly, make sure they are still accessible.

 

[richy3333]

Yes if the wagos are rated appropriately. Your proposed solution would not be Maintainence Free so would need reasonable access for future I&T. Why not just remove the S/O’s and crimp and over-sleeve?

 

[telectrix]

i would use the ideal in line splice connectors or push fit wagos. unless you are a builder, then choc block and ... plaster over.

 

[simpson93]

Ideally if you can, remove the cables from the wall and put a junction under the kick plates.

 

[Bobby34]

I was looking at those inline splice, but wasn't sure which was better between them and the wago's, so would it be acceptable then to remove the S/O, use those inline splice, oversleeve and then patch up?

 

[littlespark]

Can the sockets not be utilised for under unit or kickboard lighting?
Marked accordingly so they know what isolates what

 

[Baddegg]

If they not gonna be accessible I’d crimp and shrink em, trouble with wagos is they don’t class as MF if not in a wago box....not sure about the insure splice but won’t be to hard to check

 

[simpson93]

Since when have wagos not been MF?

 

[Baddegg]

When they not in a wago box,always happy to be corrected but I’m sure that’s what I’ve read on wago website

 

[Bobby34]

When they not in a wago box,always happy to be corrected but I’m sure that’s what I’ve read on wago website

I never realised that, always thought the connectors were maintenance free regardless of what enclosure they were in, every days a school day as they say

 

[richy3333]

I was looking at those inline splice, but wasn't sure which was better between them and the wago's, so would it be acceptable then to remove the S/O, use those inline splice, oversleeve and then patch up?

No

 

[simpson93]

Rather then the mf aspect, those cables will still be chased into the walls?

If so the connections will need to be accessible to create the zones

 

[Baddegg]

I never realised that, always thought the connectors were maintenance free regardless of what enclosure they were in, every days a school day as they say

In the real world I doubt it makes much difference but then wago wouldn’t be able to sell they boxes......their ball their rules I spose

 

[richy3333]

Since when have wagos not been MF?

You clearly don’t understand the use of Wago connectors and the principles of MF junction boxes. Read the relevant section of BS7671 and info on the Wago website

 

[Bobby34]

No

So keep S/O box, inline splice/crimp shrink, oversleeve and blanking plate and then can be classed as M/F??

 

[Octopus]

If the new layout allows, I would leave the sockets in place and cut access holes in the rear of the cupboards..... or if the cables come from below, get them out of the wall and use Hager MF boxes ........

 

[Bobby34]

No

So keep S/O box, inline splice/crimp shrink, oversleeve and blanking plate and then can be classed as M/F??

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I would access the cables above these sockets in the ceiling. I would access from below as there's a pretty good chance some plastering must be going on so the small holes you make in the ceiling can be filled. I would then join the cables in a MF wago and leave in the ceiling.

I doubt the old sockets will be in an ideal place behind the new cupboards, also I doubt that the owner will want big holes cut in them simple so he can see a blanking plate in order to create the needed electrical zone. The kitchen fitter will end up just covering them up with the cabinets and then there will be live cables hidden in the walls.

 

[Wilko]

The kitchen fitter will end up just covering them up with the cabinets and then there will be live cables hidden in the walls.

And Kev may put a screw into the drop and create rework for all, not so much fun...

 

[123]

If the new layout allows, I would leave the sockets in place and cut access holes in the rear of the cupboards..... or if the cables come from below, get them out of the wall and use Hager MF boxes ........

I'd love to try and explain that to a customer - yes Mam I know your kitchen cost over £20k, but it was easier for us to put the big holes in the back of the units rather than remove the sockets properly.

 

[Bobby34]

So can i just confirm, if I use a crimp and shrink or inline splice and then put a blanking plate then it will be classed as MF? I don't want to cut holes etc in cupboards the ring main could do with having a few less sockets on it as it is haha.

 

[westward10]

Don't forget to maintain an earth to the back box, not sure how you would make this MF.

 

[Octopus]

I'd love to try and explain that to a customer - yes Mam I know your kitchen cost over £20k, but it was easier for us to put the big holes in the back of the units rather than remove the sockets properly.

I did say "if the layout allows" .........

 

[GBDamo]

Hi guys and girls,

A client is moving their kitchen into another room that currently has a few sockets in it.

The sockets are currently on a ring final circuit that covers every socket in the house.

They've asked me to add sockets for the new kitchen so I am going to run a new kitchen circuit most of which can be done in trunking as it will be behind the units going in.

My question is am I able to replace the faceplates of the old sockets not being used/covered with a blanking plate and use maintenance free wago's inside so the ring for the rest of the house is not affected? (3 sockets I think that will end up behind units)

Thanks in advance

If you can get access to the leg in and leg out under the floor, I think it' be a better job to cut out the old sockets and link the old legs under the floor in MF boxes.

A row of blanking plates on the wall is going to look ugly and it's only a matter of time until someone removes them and skims over.

Then you'll have live cables in the wall with no obvious route indicators.

Try to go d the legs and do it properly, all in my humble opinion of course.

 

[remedial]

Have you considered splitting the ring and removing all unwanted sockets?

 

[haj]

Split ring remove Surplus sockets join back up with wago’s and wago box under cabinets behind plinths ! Just remember to try and leave enough slack to make it easy in the future to check em.

 

[Pete999]

Split ring remove Surplus sockets join back up with wago’s and wago box under cabinets behind plinths ! Just remember to try and leave enough slack to make it easy in the future to check em.

Why check them if they are MF?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Not all Wago boxes are MF. The box used must be stamped with the MF symbol. The smaller boxes are not. I have no idea why this is the case, but it is.

 

[Andy78]

Not all Wago boxes are MF. The box used must be stamped with the MF symbol. The smaller boxes are not. I have no idea why this is the case, but it is.

The larger boxes have cradles for the connectors but the small ones don't, is a possible reason ? Not sure.

 

[Bobster]

The larger boxes have cradles for the connectors but the small ones don't, is a possible reason ? Not sure.

Not seen the small units before, but do they offer cable restraints? This is one of the main factors in a MF connection.

 

[Bobster]

The larger boxes have cradles for the connectors but the small ones don't, is a possible reason ? Not sure.

Not seen the small units before, but do they offer cable restraints? This is one of the main factors in a MF connection.

 

[Andy78]

Not seen the small units before, but do they offer cable restraints? This is one of the main factors in a MF connection.

They have the rubber fins on cable entry to hold the cable sheath firm like the larger box, but not the moulded plastic "stalls" that the connectors live inside.
The smaller boxes are a through box with cable entry each of the short ends rather than the one end.

 

[Baddegg]

They have the rubber fins on cable entry to hold the cable sheath firm like the larger box, but not the moulded plastic "stalls" that the connectors live inside.
The smaller boxes are a through box with cable entry each of the short ends rather than the one end.

For lighting circuits I believe, never used em though....

 

[Andy78]

 

[suffolkspark]

I think the only thing that makes it mf over the little one is it has the cable tie slot.... it's all a load of crap, I use whichever is most suitable at the time

 

[Deleted member 9648]

View attachment 49556

I don't think either of those are stamped with MF. The smallest MF ones I've seen are around 4x4" and appeared identical to non MF ones in terms of cable restraints apart from size and being stamped with the MF symbol.

 

[telectrix]

time you bought the wago box, wagos, earth sleeved the cpc's, closed box with pipe grips, better off paying £4 for the quickwire solution.

 

[Andy78]

I don't think either of those are stamped with MF. The smallest MF ones I've seen are around 4x4" and appeared identical to non MF ones in terms of cable restraints apart from size and being stamped with the MF symbol.

The larger one is stamped MF inside the lid. Hard to see on my pic though, even zoomed in.

 

[Andy78]

time you bought the wago box, wagos, earth sleeved the cpc's, closed box with pipe grips, better off paying £4 for the quickwire solution.

Love the quickwire push in system, but I find wagos in boxes better to keep as they are completely flexible in the connection configuration. Quickwire only do one specific job.