Self build - wiring a new network. Advice please.

[janner43]

Hi all,

Thanks for taking the time to read this and hopefully to give me some advice.

1) I am building a self build home and want to wire it for networking
2) The network will be wired through a NETGEAR GS608-400UKS 8 Port Gigabit Ethernet 10/100/1000 Mbps Switch: Amazon.co.uk: Computers & Accessories
3) We are going to be using it for smart TV, possible NAS access and general domestic "computery stuff"
4) I only want to do this once and within a balance of affordability I would like to do it in the best way possible.

My question is what sort of network cable should I run?
Cat 5e or Cat 6?
Shielded or UTP (unshielded twisted pair)?

If you were to explain why you think one is preferable to another I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[hightower]

Hi mate, I work in IT, we don't even run cat6 - you will get gig speed with cat5e. Unless you're planning on running the next Google from home it will be more than sufficient for decades to come. We tend to run UTP too. In a domestic environment that's all you'd need, even if running in locations near power cables. There's no need to over think it, stick with the basics and you'll be alright.

 

[Octopus]

Why only an 8 port?

 

[hightower]

Why only an 8 port?

Couple of smart tv, nas, supply, couple of computers, that's 6, so why buy a 24 port? It'd be overkill and a waste of money.

 

[Octopus]

Couple of smart tv, nas, supply, couple of computers, that's 6, so why buy a 24 port? It'd be overkill and a waste of money.

The OP did say he wanted to do it once and do it properly!

I've run wiring for 8 in my place and the extension will require about 4 more........ so thats 12 to begin with!

 

[hightower]

The OP did say he wanted to do it once and do it properly!

I've run wiring for 8 in my place and the extension will require about 4 more........ so thats 12 to begin with!

Fair comment, but there's nothing to stop him running 300 cables where he might foresee their use but aren't necessarily needed today, but a switch is easily upgraded as that demand increases. If you add in to the equation consoles, sky boxes, home automation etc then that 8 could easily be 20, but if all he plans on plugging in for the next few years is a few items there's no need to spend more.

Op: as murdoch raises though, think carefully about your wiring needs - that single point in the kitchen can easily be overlooked, or a few extra at the TV centre that weren't previously thought to be needed. It'll be sods law that you find you need a cable running somewhere after you get your last coat of paint on your brand new walls.

 

[hightower]

Also, my uncle built a house - he wired in speakers to every room, and has a central controlled sound system. Quite fancy but I love it. Means if he has music on he can go room to room and it follows him, and very handy for parties etc

 

[SJD]

Also, my uncle built a house - he wired in speakers to every room, and has a central controlled sound system. Quite fancy but I love it. Means if he has music on he can go room to room and it follows him, and very handy for parties etc

Recently been helping wire a new build big house, speakers in every room also - but in all the main rooms 7 speakers - all back to central a central point - we used about 1.5km of speaker cable in all.

 

[Octopus]

Just wondering if I should run CAT5 to a port in the garage / store (in our extension) - I have no need for it now, but what about the future?

 

[hightower]

Just wondering if I should run CAT5 to a port in the garage / store (in our extension) - I have no need for it now, but what about the future?

If it'll be less trouble now I would do it. Never know when you might want a tv in there, a cc tv system, or a computerised freezer

 

[Octopus]

If it'll be less trouble now I would do it. Never know when you might want a tv in there, a cc tv system, or a computerised freezer

Which is my point to the OP.......

 

[hightower]

Which is my point to the OP.......

I know, but that's the wiring - doesn't mean he needs a bigger switch now. He might need a bigger switch once he invests in a computerised freezer though.

 

[janner43]

Thanks guys

That is all excellent advice. I will "over wire" as in running more cabling etc than I think I need to begin with, so thanks for that suggestion.

I'll have multiple ports on the router anyway, so the switch is an addition to that and can always be added to or upsized in the future as required.

I'll go ahead with cat5e then.

I'm currently musing over music speakers. To be honest, we don't listen to music a huge amount, but I have already got a reel of speaker cable for pre wiring 7.2 surround sound - even though I currently only run at 5.1

Many thanks to all who have replied. Great forum.

I'm actually a forum admin on a tech site for mobile tech devices such as the Asus Transformer, so I know a good forum when I see one.

Thanks again.

 

[janner43]

Apparently my posts still need mod approval prior to going live, so my replies might take a while to appear.

One subsidiary question - do I need to be particular about the quality of cable, or would something like this be OK...
PP7106 - PRO POWER - Multipair Unscreened Cable, 25 AWG, 0.2 mm², 1 x 0.5mm², 328 ft, 100 m | CPC UK

 

[Midwest]

Hi mate, I work in IT, we don't even run cat6 - you will get gig speed with cat5e. Unless you're planning on running the next Google from home it will be more than sufficient for decades to come. We tend to run UTP too. In a domestic environment that's all you'd need, even if running in locations near power cables. There's no need to over think it, stick with the basics and you'll be alright.

Hightower I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject, but when I've been browsing on AV forums, the advice on there was to use Cat6. I can't point you to specific threads, but I just googled Cat5 v Cat6 and this is one of the first hits;
What Is The Difference Between Cat 5, Cat 5e, and Cat 6 Cable?

 

[LankyWill]

Wire pure copper cat6 shielded then you have a future proof system. I did it my my parents place and its finished its defiantly a pleasing thought. Throw in speaker system and a coax/bt to the garage.

 

[hightower]

Hightower I bow to your superior knowledge on the subject, but when I've been browsing on AV forums, the advice on there was to use Cat6. I can't point you to specific threads, but I just googled Cat5 v Cat6 and this is one of the first hits;
What Is The Difference Between Cat 5, Cat 5e, and Cat 6 Cable?

Superior? Not so sure about that haha.

But there's honestly no need to be installing cat6 in a domestic setting unless you're running a server farm or something. For the added cost (quite substantial) the domestic user will see little in the way of benefit. Cat5e is going nowhere fast, and I've not heard of anything in the pipeline that would possibly warrant cat6 at least in a domestic setting. You can only stream as fast as your Internet connection allows, and the normal home user won't be sending data over the home network with demand for speeds greater than offered by cat5e.

 

[hightower]

Wire pure copper cat6 shielded then you have a future proof system. I did it my my parents place and its finished its defiantly a pleasing thought. Throw in speaker system and a coax/bt to the garage.

Completely future proof, until cat 7 is the new standard. The op asked for thoughts on networking in terms of value for money, and I don't believe this option is value for money.

Rcbos are the dream in a domestic electrical setting, and I'm sure everyone recommends their use highly. But when somebody says they want a solution that fits their needs and wallet, and all you can say is 'you need rcbos', well I'm not sure that's the best way to win customers.

Unless the op has strong needs for higher data transfer rates there is really no need to install cat6. As I say I work in IT on a medium to large network, and it hasn't even entered my head to use cat6 yet. It's simply not value for money in regards to our needs.

 

[Midwest]

Superior? Not so sure about that haha.

But there's honestly no need to be installing cat6 in a domestic setting unless you're running a server farm or something. For the added cost (quite substantial) the domestic user will see little in the way of benefit.

Places I just googled have Cat6 at 26p per metre more?

 

[hightower]

Places I just googled have Cat6 at 26p per metre more?

Yeah that probably sounds right. Not mega bucks more, until you realise you need cat6 terminations too, and when I last installed they were twice the price of cat5e modules.

Not double now on a quick look at screwfix.

http://m.screwfix.com/p/philex-rj45-cat5e-module-outlet-kit-double/34584

http://m.screwfix.com/p/philex-cat-6-rj45-twin-outlet-kit/96906?filtered=true


But let's say the op wires 100m to 10 points (using an outlet at each end), so 26 quid extra for the cable at your prices, plus 30 quid extra for the cat6 outlets.

On an install that might cost 100 quid in materials to do cat5e, a 50% increase for no realistic benefit is a lot of money.

 

[hightower]

Funny old story, we did an install for a bit of a geek once. He was adamant he wanted cat6 so that's what we installed. It was like Microsoft hq by the time we'd done, but he didn't want to spend a penny more on the electrical install (new fusebox at same time) than he had too - fit the cheapest carp available. Strange that ain't it, the networking had to be the best of the best, but he wasn't interested in spending money on a system that might actually cause harm.

 

[LankyWill]

Cat5e is cheap, by pure copper if you can

 

[janner43]

I did a lot of reading around before I posted and I know there is debate about cat6 or cat5e.

I'll likely go cat5e I suspect. But if there is a good price on cat6 then...

I see CPC have what looks like an offer on cable at the moment - but my earlier post took a while to get approved so I think it missed its place in the conversation, so to speak.

Would this be a good buy...
PP7106 - PRO POWER - Multipair Unscreened Cable, 25 AWG, 0.2 mm², 1 x 0.5mm², 328 ft, 100 m | CPC UK

 

[shanky887614]

get 10gb cat6 for future proof or run conduit so you can network them all later.

nvme ssd's are running at 2500MB/s now so wont be long till your internal network can saturate the bandwith

thats just m.2 ssd.


10gb switches are expensive atm and are a couple years out till there affordable but combing that with the massive price drop in ssd's its worth looking.

 

[hightower]

I did a lot of reading around before I posted and I know there is debate about cat6 or cat5e.

I'll likely go cat5e I suspect. But if there is a good price on cat6 then...

I see CPC have what looks like an offer on cable at the moment - but my earlier post took a while to get approved so I think it missed its place in the conversation, so to speak.

Would this be a good buy...
PP7106 - PRO POWER - Multipair Unscreened Cable, 25 AWG, 0.2 mm², 1 x 0.5mm², 328 ft, 100 m | CPC UK

Hi mate, we buy 305m for about 40 I think so that looks a pretty good price

 

[hightower]

get 10gb cat6 for future proof or run conduit so you can network them all later.

nvme ssd's are running at 2500MB/s now so wont be long till your internal network can saturate the bandwith

thats just m.2 ssd.


10gb switches are expensive atm and are a couple years out till there affordable but combing that with the massive price drop in ssd's its worth looking.

But what's going to take up that bandwidth? BT are streaming 4k video now over a standard fibre connection (20meg or better). So streaming 10 4k videos at a time from a local nas isn't going to use the bandwidth capabilities of cat 5e.

There's honestly nothing in a domestic setting that needs cat6 or will anytime in the next 20 years.

 

[shanky887614]

But what's going to take up that bandwidth? BT are streaming 4k video now over a standard fibre connection (20meg or better). So streaming 10 4k videos at a time from a local nas isn't going to use the bandwidth capabilities of cat 5e.

There's honestly nothing in a domestic setting that needs cat6 or will anytime in the next 20 years.

i dont agree with that, 20 years ago we were using 20gb hard drives and floppy disks!!!!

anyway 4k isnt really 4k if you compare it to 480,720 and 1080


technically if you go by the naming convention used for 4k all1080 screens are really 2k

 

[hightower]

i dont agree with that, 20 years ago we were using 20gb hard drives and floppy disks!!!!

We were still using them 10 years ago mate. Cat6 has been around for years, it's designed for media/data heavy applications. Yep I agree technology takes off at an unbelievable rate but cat5e is typically used at not even a fraction of its limitation. You can't compare the growth of local storage to networking.

It's a bit like recommending a 15 way consumer unit for an install of 4 circuits. Yeah there's the possibility of needing some room for expansion but not 11 spare ways worth.

Honestly, our network at work is classed as extremely data heavy, if I showed you usage, network never breaches 1% even in peak times.

 

[amlu]

unless you want to run a server farm you wont need any more than standard cat5 100 mbits/s.
stay away from CCA cable, get proper copper one.

 

[shanky887614]

We were still using them 10 years ago mate. Cat6 has been around for years, it's designed for media/data heavy applications. Yep I agree technology takes off at an unbelievable rate but cat5e is typically used at not even a fraction of its limitation. You can't compare the growth of local storage to networking.

It's a bit like recommending a 15 way consumer unit for an install of 4 circuits. Yeah there's the possibility of needing some room for expansion but not 11 spare ways worth.

Honestly, our network at work is classed as extremely data heavy, if I showed you usage, network never breaches 1% even in peak times.

they have had bms for 30 years and still use the same systems today

why do they need to upgrade?

 

[hightower]

they have had bms for 30 years and still use the same systems today

why do they need to upgrade?

Aww come on mate, I've made a pretty solid argument why cat5e is sufficient. That comment is nothing more than to get a rise out of me surely?

 

[shanky887614]

Aww come on mate, I've made a pretty solid argument why cat5e is sufficient. That comment is nothing more than to get a rise out of me surely?

for most people cat3 is sufficent. depends what people want and do.

i regually backup iso backups.

anyway for the price differencr i would use cat6e

18p a metre vs 25p a meter not much in it

 

[hightower]

for most people cat3 is sufficent. depends what people want and do.

i regually backup iso backups.

anyway for the price differencr i would use cat6e

18p a metre vs 25p a meter not much in it

Plus price difference for modules etc.

 

[shanky887614]

Plus price difference for modules etc.

cat6 cable will fit cat5 and i doubt there is much difference in price

 

[hightower]

cat6 cable will fit cat5 and i doubt there is much difference in price

Why pay for cat6 cable if you're gonna terminate it in cat 5e modules?

 

[hightower]

cat6 cable will fit cat5 and i doubt there is much difference in price

By that argument, 2.5mm does not cost that much more than 1.5mm, but I bet you wouldn't run it as standard in a typical domestic lighting circuit.

 

[shanky887614]

i wouldnt install cat6 a lot of cat6 has the same rating as cat5e thats why i said 6e.

 

[davesparks]

i wouldnt install cat6 a lot of cat6 has the same rating as cat5e thats why i said 6e.

There's no such thing as a cat6e standard, it was a gimmick by manufacturers to con people into thinking that their cat6 is better than other cat6.
There is a cat6a standard in existence though, it has a slightly better crosstalk resistance at very high frequencies. But just to complicate things there is a difference between IEC cat6a and TIA cat6a.
You could of course go up to cat7 but then the connectors aren't compatible.

 

[shanky887614]

There's no such thing as a cat6e standard, it was a gimmick by manufacturers to con people into thinking that their cat6 is better than other cat6.
There is a cat6a standard in existence though, it has a slightly better crosstalk resistance at very high frequencies. But just to complicate things there is a difference between IEC cat6a and TIA cat6a.
You could of course go up to cat7 but then the connectors aren't compatible.

true cat6 comes in 1gbs and 10gbs cat6e is easier to say though ^^

none of these data cables will hit there rated speed though

 

[janner43]

Wanted to post back just to say thanks for all the advice and let you know what the outcome is...

I have bought 305m of Excel 100-060 cable (£45 delivered)
Category 5e Unscreened (U/UTP) Cable - LSOH | Excel Networking

And also a 24 port patch panel (£10.35 delivered)
RJ45 Cat5e 24 Port Ethernet Network Patch Panel 1U 19" Wall Mounted Bracket Rack | eBay

I plan to run a lot more cable runs than I will initially need and then terminate them in the patch panel to future proof the install.

As far as needing the higher spec of cat6 goes, my final thinking was this. Given that even streaming 4K from Netflix or Amazon only requires 20mbs, a decent cat5e solid copper cable, capable of up to 1gigabit in speed is going to give me all the future proofing I need. An old work colleague (IT Manager) has advised me on the best way to terminate the runs, hence the simple patch panel.

Anyway, cheers all for the advice and comments. Great forum and as I am currently undertaking a self build project that is just about to get into the ground, you may find me asking more questions over the next few weeks.

All the best