Withholding certificates until you've been paid?

[Octopus]

I was asked today to review an EICR produced by another , a in Exeter to be precise, so far to far for me to be even vaguely interested in the job

What caught my eye on their email was the following:

Please note the process to certification is as follows:

1. Electrical testing carried out.

2. Invoice.

3. Invoice Paid (cleared funds).

4. Test docs go into processing.

5. Certificate created following processing and outcome marked as either satisfactory/unsatisfactory.

6. Certificate emailed to you in pdf format.

EDIT: This is a NICEIC contractor and I thought their rules are certifcate with invoice


I never withhold a certificate until payment, let alone cleared funds

Thoughts?

 

[SparkyChick]

I'm with you. I don't with hold the certs because as far as I'm concerned, the job isn't complete until the cert is in the clients hands... in the case of an EICR, that is what they are paying for after all.

Nearly all of mine are attached to the same email as the invoice.

 

[Risteard]

EDIT: This is a NICEIC contractor and I thought their rules are certifcate with invoice

Whilst they may discourage it, I'm not sure that they have a "rule" on it. Surely if this was agreed with the client beforehand then it's simply a matter of contract.

 

[Andy78]

EICR is different to EIC or MWC as the customer could argue that alterations are not completed to BS7671 until certs are issued.

I always issue all certs before asking for payment though.

I know of one local NICEIC AC firm that does cheap EICRs then tries to bully customers into having remedial work done saying they cannot have their report until quoted works are completed.

 

[rolyberkin]

Just ordered myself a card reader can't get my head around this whole invoicing thing, if I go and have my hair cut they don't invoice me!

 

[jackhammerJIM]

cert follows payment for me unless its a trusted client .

 

[Briggs69]

cert follows payment for me unless its a trusted client .

Am the same as you trust no one unless regular client.certs once paid

 

[Des 56]

I suppose its a little different issuing a report to issuing a certificate
Electrical "installation"contracts carried out may not be compliant with the regs unless a certificate is compiled
A report on the other hand seems to be a different animal

We are all aware of the main reason for a report regards landlords etc,they are concerned only with a satisfactory and low cost,in that order
By issuing the report after payment,it may remove the power of a landlord being influential in its outcome or not paying at all, if the report is negative

 

[Briggs69]

You find faults and they think you are trying to screw them to get work on eicr’s.thats my biggest bug bear with them.

 

[Octopus]

I've done an EICR today. Tomorrow I will email the client the invoice and the report.

I'll only spend time on an estimate if they ask me to!

 

[westward10]

We lost a contract from a major retailers couple of years ago but they frequently contact asking for copies of EICRs they have had once already, of course we say but there will be a £300 admin fee.

 

[Cadgey123]

I withhold my certificates until all the final bits have been finished and accepted by the client.
I have a retention which I leave until the job is completed.
Once the final balance is cleared I release them and notify building control.

Customers are quite quick to hold your money so why not?

 

[freddo]

in Exeter to be precise,

Well at least it's not one of ours! Our certs get printed and then posted with the invoice.

 

[baldelectrician]

I do not issue a cert until payment is made, in the unlikely event they ask for one I send one all marked with 'lim' and unsigned. Then they are told they get a completed one once payment is made

I did an EICR at the weekend (Saturday) and issued an invoice on Monday (afternoon), the client paid me via card on Monday afternoon and I sent the cert via email 6 hours later (and she moaned it took too long)

 

[The Ghost]

Strange but I feel it is dishonarable to withhold the certificate. If someone does not pay me that is them being dishonarable. I won't play --- for tat. But I must say I can't remember when someone has withheld payment yet in 45 years, must be charmed.

 

[baldelectrician]

Strange but I feel it is dishonarable to withhold the certificate. If someone does not pay me that is them being dishonarable. I won't play --- for tat. But I must say I can't remember when someone has withheld payment yet in 45 years, must be charmed.

I do over 80% landlord works and landlords are hurting here- the Scottish Government is requiring landlords to have a satisfactory EICR from a registered contractor (SELECT / NICEIC or NAPIT) prior to letting a flat.
many landlords do not want to pay for an EICR that is unsatisfactory and that's where it comes to not volunteering the certs till payment is made.

 

[DJ Ovengloves]

I can sort of see why you withhold stuff but if I’m honest I’m not sure I’d engage someone who didn’t at least provide a schedule of tests before paying.

 

[Octopus]

I'm just a little surprised that so many people appear to with hold a certificate.

Would you pay for your MOT if the garage with held your certificate?

 

[Risteard]

I'm just a little surprised that so many people appear to with hold a certificate.

Would you pay for your MOT if the garage with held your certificate?

Here you pre-pay for MoT/PSV which can only be carried out at a government-run MoT centre.

 

[JK-Electrical]

I do over 80% landlord works and landlords are hurting here- the Scottish Government is requiring landlords to have a satisfactory EICR from a registered contractor (SELECT / NICEIC or NAPIT) prior to letting a flat.
many landlords do not want to pay for an EICR that is unsatisfactory and that's where it comes to not volunteering the certs till payment is made.

I do a lot of EICRs for landlords too and am staggered by just how many of them have already let properties without having had an EICR carried-out beforehand. Ditto smoke and heat alarms. Some of them are completely oblivious to the legal obligations that are placed upon them via a vis electrical safety when letting properties, and do not realise that responsibility for the safety of an installation and any electrical appliances that they provide as part of the tenancy lies exclusively with themselves.

I recently carried-out an EICR at a property owned by one such landlord and while I was moving a fully-laden fridge/freezer to gain access to the socket supplying it, a small section of loose, badly fitted,16 year-old linoleum was accidentally ripped. Upon submission of my invoice the landlord awarded himself £125.00 in compensation and deducted it from the bill. So from this point on NO ONE will be receiving any certificates until I have been paid in full.​

 

[lurch]

I do a lot of EICRs for landlords too and am staggered by just how many of them have already let properties without having had an EICR carried-out beforehand. Ditto smoke and heat alarms. Some of them are completely oblivious to the legal obligations that are placed upon them via a vis electrical safety when letting properties, and do not realise that responsibility for the safety of an installation and any electrical appliances that they provide as part of the tenancy lies exclusively with themselves.

I recently carried-out an EICR at a property owned by one such landlord and while I was moving a fully-laden fridge/freezer to gain access to the socket supplying it, a small section of loose, badly fitted,16 year-old linoleum was accidentally ripped. Upon submission of my invoice the landlord awarded himself £125.00 in compensation and deducted it from the bill. So from this point on NO ONE will be receiving any certificates until I have been paid in full.​

My days if moving fridges, washing machines are long gone after a leak was attributed to me during an EICR. Put a coming asking restricted access.

 

[JK-Electrical]

My days if moving fridges, washing machines are long gone after a leak was attributed to me during an EICR. Put a coming asking restricted access.

So too are mine. From hereon, customers will be given a list of terms and conditions to read and sign before I do any work for them. They will have to move appliances themselves or arrange for someone else to do so. If they don't agree with my conditions the appliances will not be tested.

 

[lurch]

Coming should have read comment

 

[Octopus]

Link out L&N to avoid some problems .....

That said in an older property, I would much prefer to do proper IR tests.

 

[sparksfly]

I do find it sad that it takes only one customer to spoil it for the rest.
I do send invoice and certificates/reports at the same time ....that is what they are paying you for. I have had some customers who were in tears as they had paid upfront but then cannot get the original electrician to write the report holding the customer to ransom over remedial work needed.
I have had the very rare non-paying customers but not had the time/resource to follow up or track them down....others I have given them a final demand which usually works.
If any landlord/organisation/customer delays payment or keeps trying to cut your rates...don't work for them. When they want you urgently......do nothing.

 

[7029 dave]

IMO, I understand why certs are held until payment, get a punter do the job issue the relevant paper work, they have what they want but do you have the dollar.?

 

[l4urence]

Great thread - I think it's 50/50 either way. I like the MOT example since to get the MOT you need to pay first. I would like to think a payment would be made on delivery of the certs but I can also see why these might be withheld until payment is made. What happens if they customer never pays, the cert is already done and registered with BC

 

[ipf]

Great thread - I think it's 50/50 either way. I like the MOT example since to get the MOT you need to pay first. I would like to think a payment would be made on delivery of the certs but I can also see why these might be withheld until payment is made. What happens if they customer never pays, the cert is already done and registered with BC

They'd get a Part Peee, through the post, which tells you nowt....but no delivery of completion cert from the contractor.
......and MOT's have a set cost, electrical certs vary.