Minor Works Certificates

[Chris Hex]

Hi,
The NICEIC just told me I should not be issuing Minor Works Certificates for work carried out by the house owner but inspected and tested by me (NICEIC registered). I'm a bit surprised. So is that right no-one is allowed to run their own cables and connect their own sockets without energising the system, it all has to be done by a someone who is in a competent person scheme.
Cheers

Chris

 

[Chris Hex]

seems to of up loaded twice

 

[Octopus]

ah ha. Its the NICEIC cert system ...... another "interpretation" of the regs....

The sample forms in BS 7671 AMD3 are a better "template"

 

[Pat H]

Ot maybe the easy route to walkaway from diyer or 3rd party work but its not really helping ensure safety is it.
Who does sort that out?
Just leave households with potentially dangerous installations?
I'm happy to look and advice. I won't sign off work I've not done but I will do an EICR taking care to be clear what I have and haven't tested.
Niceic only need to be in the loop for notifiable work and that should be all your own work.
I'd only walk away if the homeowner ignored my advice related to safety.

 

[Octopus]

Ot maybe the easy route to walkaway from diyer or 3rd party work but its not really helping ensure safety is it.
Who does sort that out?
Just leave households with potentially dangerous installations?
I'm happy to look and advice. I won't sign off work I've not done but I will do an EICR taking care to be clear what I have and haven't tested.
Niceic only need to be in the loop for notifiable work and that should be all your own work.
I'd only walk away if the homeowner ignored my advice related to safety.

A sensible course of action - the last person who asked me to test, asked me also to quote to do the work - my quote to test was only slightly less than doing the works - so they got me to do the whole job!

 

[HandySparks]

I won't sign off work I've not done but I will do an EICR taking care to be clear what I have and haven't tested.

Quite.
There's no real difference between doing an EICR on some new DIY work and doing one on a house that contains DIY work done 10 years ago. You're just reporting on what you can inspect and test.

 

[Midwest]

ah ha. Its the NICEIC cert system ...... another "interpretation" of the regs....

The sample forms in BS 7671 AMD3 are a better "template"

I might be wrong, but I think the Certsure on-line forms reflect the fact that only a Qualified Supervisor can sign off the certificates. Something straight forward in my business, cos there's only me

However, larger companies will have 'Instructed persons (electrically)' who are capable to carry out installations without the need of close supervision. A ' Skilled persons (electrically)' would be needed to verify, inspect & test, and could be classified as a QS and sign off the certificate.

Although I note that BS7671 A3, has just 'I CERTIFY', I see that appendix 6 (ix) gives guidance on signing the forms, by or on behalf of business or individuals.

 

[Midwest]

Ot maybe the easy route to walkaway from diyer or 3rd party work but its not really helping ensure safety is it.
Who does sort that out?
Just leave households with potentially dangerous installations?
I'm happy to look and advice. I won't sign off work I've not done but I will do an EICR taking care to be clear what I have and haven't tested.
Niceic only need to be in the loop for notifiable work and that should be all your own work.
I'd only walk away if the homeowner ignored my advice related to safety.

I think the point is, you as being registered with the NIC, are not a registered 3rd party Certifier, because NIC/Elecsa never signed up to it.

If you want to continue to do so, you must register with one of the schemes that does, Napit & Stroma, and then register with them to carry out 3rd party certification. This link from a forum sponsor gives an explanation. Incidentally chaps, this report suggests an EICR cannot be used for 3rd party certification;

Register of 3rd Party Certifiers. What's happening? - https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/posts/3rd-party-register

 

[Pete999]

I think the point is, you as being registered with the NIC, are not a registered 3rd party Certifier, because NIC/Elecsa never signed up to it.

If you want to continue to do so, you must register with one of the schemes that does, Napit & Stroma, and then register with them to carry out 3rd party certification. This link from a forum sponsor gives an explanation. Incidentally chaps, this report suggests an EICR cannot be used for 3rd party certification;

Register of 3rd Party Certifiers. What's happening? - https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/posts/3rd-party-register

Thanks mate, a very enlightening document.

 

[Midwest]

I think the point is, you as being registered with the NIC, are not a registered 3rd party Certifier, because NIC/Elecsa never signed up to it.

If you want to continue to do so, you must register with one of the schemes that does, Napit & Stroma, and then register with them to carry out 3rd party certification. This link from a forum sponsor gives an explanation. Incidentally chaps, this report suggests an EICR cannot be used for 3rd party certification;

Register of 3rd Party Certifiers. What's happening? - https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/posts/3rd-party-register

Apologies, my post should of been directed at the OP.

 

[Octopus]

I think the point is, you as being registered with the NIC, are not a registered 3rd party Certifier, because NIC/Elecsa never signed up to it.

If you want to continue to do so, you must register with one of the schemes that does, Napit & Stroma, and then register with them to carry out 3rd party certification. This link from a forum sponsor gives an explanation. Incidentally chaps, this report suggests an EICR cannot be used for 3rd party certification;

Register of 3rd Party Certifiers. What's happening? - https://www.tradeskills4u.co.uk/posts/3rd-party-register

I'm with Stroma, and at my last assessment, the assessor asked me if I did 3rd party testing - to which I stated no, and never want to - he seemed "pleased" with my response!

 

[Pete999]

I'm with Stroma, and at my last assessment, the assessor asked me if I did 3rd party testing - to which I stated no, and never want to - he seemed "pleased" with my response!

Hi mate, if you ever did 3rd party certification, not that I would ever need to, out of interest what document would you need to use? as an EICR is not acceptable for 3rd party certification.

 

[Octopus]

Hi mate, if you ever did 3rd party certification, not that I would ever need to, out of interest what document would you need to use? as an EICR is not acceptable for 3rd party certification.

On my patch, it would depend on the LABC inspectors, Woking - not sure - Guildford - only their "approved contractors" can inspect lecky work done by others .....

So I'm not sure ...... as I don't do it!

 

[Pete999]

On my patch, it would depend on the LABC inspectors, Woking - not sure - Guildford - only their "approved contractors" can inspect lecky work done by others .....

So I'm not sure ...... as I don't do it!

Thanks

 

[Richard Burns]

Hi mate, if you ever did 3rd party certification, not that I would ever need to, out of interest what document would you need to use? as an EICR is not acceptable for 3rd party certification.

The approved document P states categorically that an EICR must be produced so I am not sure why the link above states an EICR is not acceptable.
3.6 Within 5 days of completing the work, the installer must notify the registered third-party certifier who, subject to the results of the inspection and testing being satisfactory, should then complete an electrical installation condition report and give it to the person ordering the work.
NOTE: The electrical installation condition report should be the model BS 7671 form or one
developed specifically for Part P purposes.

 

[Midwest]

The approved document P states categorically that an EICR must be produced so I am not sure why the link above states an EICR is not acceptable.
3.6 Within 5 days of completing the work, the installer must notify the registered third-party certifier who, subject to the results of the inspection and testing being satisfactory, should then complete an electrical installation condition report and give it to the person ordering the work.
NOTE: The electrical installation condition report should be the model BS 7671 form or one
developed specifically for Part P purposes.

I have tried to find a '3rd party certification form', and have been unable to locate one. I note what Part 2013 states, as you indicated above.

One of the two current '3rd party certifier' schemes, Napit state that 'The Electrical Certifier will need to complete a Third Party Certifier’s Electrical Installation Report and submit this to....'.
Stroma's web site doesn't elude to anything, until you've signed up!

I guess a Third Party Certification Form, would have declarations for the installer/designer, and separate declarations for the inspector tester. I see that the EICR model form does not have such declarations. I also note the model form states that 'cables concealed within trunking and conduits, under floor, in roof spaces....etc, have not been specifically inspected', whereas 3rd party certification requires such inspections. It would appear that an EICR was not designed for the purposes of 3rd party certification, and therefore is perhaps not an appropriate form. I suspect that a Third Party Certification Form, would be a mixture or combination of a EICR & EIC/MEIWC.

Who knows, who cares, but some people are making a living from it; 3rd Party Inspections - The Power Service - http://www.thepowerservice.co.uk/third-party-inspections/

 

[Midwest]

PS Napit charges an extra £60 to register as a 3rd party installer.