Consumer unit ...which way to go?

Chris86 · Dec 22, 2017

Afternoon all,

Early in the new year, I have the need to leave the comfort of the industrial world and take on a rare domestic job (rewire of my brothers new house)

Its a 4 bed house and to get it how he eventually wants it, a CU with plenty of room for expansion is a must. As usual though, budget is tight so I am trying to source a CU at a reasonable price. Work wise for 3 phase, we use either Hager or Schneider acti9 but the domestic versions of these will prove a bridge too far as will going all rcbo.

I have so far found a British General 22 module high integity unit and a Wylex 21 module high integrity unit, both of which will fit the bill future proofing wise but and there is always a but, are either of these any good and if you had to choose between them, which way would you swing?

Thanks in advance for any opinions/advice.

ATB

Chris

Spoon · Dec 23, 2017

Also, why are the Outside Light on their own breaker? If you were using RCBO's I'd understand, as the light are more likely to have a water issue that will trip things.
Not getting at you. Just wondering. I like to learn.

Midwest · Dec 23, 2017

Detectors make a annoying beeping noise, when they get switched off for too long, don't they?

telectrix · Dec 23, 2017

Midwest said:
Detectors make a annoying beeping noise, when they get switched off for too long, don't they?

till some pratt pulls the batteries.

Midwest · Dec 23, 2017

Not the sealed ones, suppose they can choose to kill themselves though.

sevuk · Dec 23, 2017

Matthewd29 said:
Don't go near bg no matter if it' given to you for free they are awful. Try contactum, good quality good price

What's so bad about bg boards? The only thing I didn't like was the busbar didn't come with an additional slip cover, but easily bought as an addition for 96p. The factory ferrules could have been a bit better too. Have you found the rcds tripping a bit slower than expected?

MJPD29 · Dec 23, 2017

sevuk said:
What's so bad about bg boards? The only thing I didn't like was the busbar didn't come with an additional slip cover, but easily bought as an addition for 96p. The factory ferrules could have been a bit better too. Have you found the rcds tripping a bit slower than expected?

I have had 3 rcds not work straight out of the box, not tripping at all not even with the test button. They just don't feel well built and unreliable but maybe I'e just had bad luck

Chris86 · Dec 23, 2017

I have a feeling it will be Wylex rewireable job installed there at the moment, there may well be some VIR cable around as well.

I would be happy to put the smoke alarms on the lighting circuit and feed outside lights via an fcu. I will consider all of this when I see how the land lies on Wednesday. If I can reduce the number of circuits and then reduce the amount of rcbo's needed then the all rcbo board becomes more of a possibility cost wise.

A quick glance at the Lewden range mentioned earlier in the thread threw up a 14 way all rcbo board for under £200, I reckon I could swing that one. With less circuits maybe, just maybe I could swing the Hager!

ATB

Chris

sevuk · Dec 23, 2017

Schneider dominates the commercial world at the moment.

May be a safe bet.

I got talked into getting a bg board for some domestic work, I've not even put it in yet. I'm worried about the rcd tests now, when I get there.

buzzlightyear · Dec 23, 2017

GET consumers you need to look at,prices are not that bad.
if you are looking at the lewden consumer units fitted them
17 years ago .try and go for a main brand if you had a problem with a mcb or rcbo you will not have a problem get a replacement down the line .

digger123 · Dec 23, 2017

If room allowed, would two 12 way populated high integrity boards not do you job, forget the rings, wire radials. Go for 4 even 6 or more circuits of lights, four RCDs means if circuits are divided correctly, in the case of problems your only going to lose a quarter of your circuits.

bailes1992 · Dec 24, 2017

I used two single phase Schneider Acti9 10 way boards in my own house. They were left over from a job I was on a few years ago.
One board services the house and the other the kitchen.
Everything is on individual RCBO's apart from the supply to the kitchen CU.
Acti9 boards are superb, probably the only board I would seriously consider working on live. The sliders are a great idea and makes maintenance and working on the board so much easier.

That said, I've just installed a BG CU in my Brother-In-Laws new summer house to match the BG CU in the house and I've not got any reason to dislike it. MCB's seem as good as any other, the board is well put together and certainly doesn't suffer with slanty MCB's like the MK boards of late!

123 · Dec 24, 2017

Number of circuits shouldn't be an issue in an all RCBO board, can get 20 way boards in numerous brands. Can get 16 way Dual RCD boards also

Chris86 · Dec 27, 2017

Evening all,

Bit of a follow up on this one. Finally got a look at the house today, it is going to need a full rewire and as expected, it is currently protected by a Wylex rewireable board.

There is nothing too daunting about the job and I had more luck than I thought when I started mentioning all rcbo boards and their costs.

One thing I am not sure about though is upgrading the main earth, anyone know how to access the earth terminals in a Henley series 7 cut out as shown in the attached photo? Not dealt with one of these before and I didn't get time to have a proper look with the estate agent hanging around like a bad smell. Not sure on the earthing arrangement yet, no PME sticker and couldn't run a ZE test today. Will contact DNO tomorrow and see what they come back with.

Thanks and atb

Chris

Toneyz · Dec 28, 2017

Chris,
If you look at the photo you will see round circular indentations (4) these are usually drilled out and the earth is put into earth block which is linked to neutral if PME, in this case, the earth has need put directly into the neutral block. To get to these terminals the grey cover needs to come off which is screwed down behind the fuse.

Chris86 · Dec 28, 2017

Thank you very much for your help at least I know where to look for the screw now.

Is linking directly to the neutral normal with this type of cut out or would it appear to be a diy PME connection? Spoken to Western power distribution today and they have no record of the earthing arrangement. They have offered to find out if PME is available and quote for provision if required.

It's looking like i wont be able to find out until the sale completes and I can run a ZE test.

Thank again for your help,

Chris

Midwest · Dec 28, 2017

Chris86 said:
Thank you very much for your help at least I know where to look for the screw now.

Is linking directly to the neutral normal with this type of cut out or would it appear to be a diy PME connection? Spoken to Western power distribution today and they have no record of the earthing arrangement. They have offered to find out if PME is available and quote for provision if required.

It's looking like i wont be able to find out until the sale completes and I can run a ZE test.

Thank again for your help,

Chris

My money is on it being PME, but I can see your thoughts about confirming this, not just jumping to conclusions like me.

Chris86 · Dec 28, 2017

Thanks for your advice, i would love to be experienced enough to jump to conclusions and be happy i was right. It is the only unknown on the job and it's typical that its with the one bit i am not 100% familar with.

My work is all plant and machinery based so all we worry about is taking Zdb/zs readings, we never have to worry about Ze and earthing arrangements. Our sub station contractors tell us we are TN-C-S give us the ZE and that's our lot.

ATB

Chris

Toneyz · Dec 28, 2017

It most likely looks like this inside. Why are you changing the meter tails?

Chris86 · Dec 28, 2017

Thank you for taking the time and effort to post the photos, they are a really big help. Is a special tool needed to fit the screws in the neutrel/earth blocks?

I am changing the meter tails as they are 16mm and the earth 10mm so upgrading to 25mm & 16mm.

Thanks again for your help,

Chris

buzzlightyear · Dec 28, 2017

when you start messing around with the DNO gear you will need the bomb proof gear all sparks carry!

Chris86 · Dec 28, 2017

Somewhere in the bowels of the stores at work we have the gloves/faceshield/Kevlar suit kit that one of our German facilities engineers told us we would need when he saw or red spot fuse boards. He turned a very funny colour when he first spotted them, granted they are a tad past their best but it did seem a bit of an over reaction.

I did enquire with WPD today regards an isolator being fitted, someone from the local office is going to call me back.......won't hold my breath though.

ATB
Chris

buzzlightyear · Dec 28, 2017

get the your brother to up grade to smart meter and ask the supplier
for isolator switch before any work is done .other wise the magic fairy's will need to pull the fuse !

Chris86 · Dec 28, 2017

That is another option we have considered, when British Gas fitted mine, they installed an isolator without being asked, just the normal procedure according to the meter fitter.

buzzlightyear · Dec 28, 2017

Chris86 said:
That is another option we have considered, when British Gas fitted mine, they installed an isolator without being asked, just the normal procedure according to the meter fitter.

no many do ,fit the isolators.

Toneyz · Dec 28, 2017

The OP will still have the problem of the main earthing conductor (taking in that if the earth is from where it normally inserted there will be a hole where the 10mm is now).

Gavin John Hyde · Dec 28, 2017

I saw in OP's post that hes under western power, when they send an engineer out to decide if they can supply PME - if they dont already, then the engineer is likely to be more than happy to pull that fuse for him, he could then install a isolator whilst the guy is there. in my experience when provided with a ample size cup of tea and pack of biscuits, western power workers will take a very long time on a 5 minute job. giving the OP plenty of time to fit isolator, change tails, add any extra earthing cables etc... it could save him a few quid too.
they normally charge around £60 to de-energise a supply.. i know if pushed you can sometimes get them to do it for free, but its like getting blood from a stone
https://www.westernpower.co.uk/docs...ical-installers/Standard-Charges-Website.aspx

Chris86 · Dec 29, 2017

Thanks for all your advice/help so far on this, it is much appreciated.

I am a bit unsure of my next move now, I assume opening up the cut out, removing the 10mm main earth and replacing it with 16mm in the same manner is not a sensible or safe approach?

Should I just hold fire until Western power distribution have been out and checked the connection? I am not sure how long this would take so am concerned about it holding the job up but if that is what's required then so be it.

ATB
Chris

Gavin John Hyde · Dec 29, 2017

Chris86 said:
Thanks for all your advice/help so far on this, it is much appreciated.

I am a bit unsure of my next move now, I assume opening up the cut out, removing the 10mm main earth and replacing it with 16mm in the same manner is not a sensible or safe approach?

Should I just hold fire until Western power distribution have been out and checked the connection? I am not sure how long this would take so am concerned about it holding the job up but if that is what's required then so be it.

ATB
Chris

Western power tend to be quite quick sending an engineer to assess things... Different story entirely getting them to do a job. Normal time is a couple of weeks. The pdf i uploaded above has their current prices in. If you do get them to do work try your luck and have an isolator ready for them to fit.... Whilst i feel they should do a lot of these things for free. They arent that overpriced.

buzzlightyear · Dec 29, 2017

get the magic fairy's in to pull the fuse. if they going hold you up .
16mm in earths in cut the 16 mm tails to new isolator from there 25mm tails in before the new consumer goes in simple's .or wait till the suppliers turn up

Chris86 · Dec 29, 2017

Thanks, that was the way I was thinking of playing this one until Western power do their bit, it is always nice to get a second opinion on these thing though.

With regards to the main earth, I am thinking of fitting a met close to the meter and connecting the existing 10mm to this then run my new 16mm from this to the new CU. I will leave the new 16mm long enough to move to the new PME earth connection once WPD have sorted it out. Bonding will be connected to a met at the CU position so I would remove the one at the meter position when it is no longer needed.

WPD called me back today and they are sending someone out on Tuesday to assess the job.

Thanks again for everyones input and advice.

ATB

Chris

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