2 Years Experience; No Qualifications - I want to be a spark, where do I start?

[highspark]

This guy is exactly what the short courses where made for. He has 2 years experiance. More than some of these Electrical Trainee

 

[Guest55]

That's funny

I employ a number of sparks nationwide for industrial. Chap one 15 experience no quals did a Electrical Trainee to get his quals and a site diary. I would trust his work with my life. Second example came to me as an apprentice dis the 3 years college route passed all his exams and still Lacks basic numeracy and literacy skills I am sure all he did was turn up. So frankly I am talking from experience of running a business that turn over in excess of 14 million pounds a year. Stupid I think not !

Thats a rubbish example - when a guy has 15 years experience BEFORE he starts training , obviously hes going to be better than a new college trainee.
Maybe thats just a reflection of how low standards are with apprentices round your area.
And your ealier comment is still nonsense no matter how big your turnover is.

 

[mickys86]

That's funny

I employ a number of sparks nationwide for industrial. Chap one 15 experience no quals did a Electrical Trainee to get his quals and a site diary. I would trust his work with my life. Second example came to me as an apprentice did the 3 years college route passed all his exams and still Lacks basic numeracy and literacy skills I am sure all he did was turn up. So frankly I am talking from experience of running a business that turns over in excess of 14 million pounds a year. Stupid I think not !

Mind you my field is very specialised and we share £135 per hour

I think what you had years ago is 3-4 yrs at college but to do this you had to have a job on the tools. Nowadays you can turn up at college for 3 years and come out fully qualified without having done a day on site. This to me is no better than a Electrical Trainee. I am fortunate enough at 28yrs to have an apprenticeship and I have just completed my level 3.

 

[mickys86]

Congrats on sticking at the college route !
Are you glad you learnt the trade using traditional long term training ?

I know the question isn't aimed at me but I wouldn't change anything if I could go back

 

[mickys86]

This guy is exactly what the short courses where made for. He has 2 years experiance. More than some of these Electrical Trainee

That's what i was thinking. You should not be allowed in someone's house with no experience. It's criminal to think of the damage you could do.

 

[i=p/u]

aye i am now, but there was times i thought f this. too much info to take in and it didnt make sense.

Congrats on sticking at the college route !
Are you glad you learnt the trade using traditional long term training ?

 

[swparksey]

Thats a rubbish example - when a guy has 15 years experience BEFORE he starts training , obviously hes going to be better than a new college trainee.
Maybe thats just a reflection of how low standards are with apprentices round your area.
And your ealier comment is still nonsense no matter how big your turnover is.

Sorry forgot to add the apprentice now has 6 or 7 years experience he came when he was 16 he is now 26 I think. It's generally the level of apprentices we receive is very poor.

Don't get me wrong I'm not mocking people who went to college. I did it and went to Uni after that long hall to get where I am today. But well worth the effort. I was trying to point out that the quality of college leavers can be very poor. And there are a lot to be said for people who say leave the forces and do a Electrical Trainee to get the certificates in some cases they are extremely skilled people. So it's time we stopped mocking the Electrical Trainee courses they have a place IMHO

 

[Guest111]

maybe the Electrical Trainee courses should be reserved for people with experience in the same way as fastrack courses are in other occupations.I know of several organisations that do a full length course for people with no experience wanting to enter the particular profession and a shorter course for people who have experience ,this seems to turn out a better class of worker in most cases.

 

[trev]

I don't know about the Electrical Trainee courses having a place Swparksey, I think they are something that is here to stay no matter what we think of the system.

 

[Guest55]

No-ones mocking anyone , 5week courses are perfectly viable for the needs of some trainees , usually those older than 30 whom are unable to commence years at college.
But put it this way , the ex-forces craftsmen that you speak of , whom leave the army after 15-20 years and do a 5 week course to get into house bashing - did they learn their original trade on a 5 week course or spend years at college ?
We both know the answer to that.

 

[swparksey]

I agree that are here to stay. I would be every worried if somebody came out of college or off a Electrical Trainee with no experience and started pulling my house apart.

This seems to have become another Electrical Trainee bashing thread

 

[alarm man]

That's funny

I employ a number of sparks nationwide for industrial. Chap one 15 experience no quals did a Electrical Trainee to get his quals and a site diary. I would trust his work with my life. Second example came to me as an apprentice did the 3 years college route passed all his exams and still Lacks basic numeracy and literacy skills I am sure all he did was turn up. So frankly I am talking from experience of running a business that turns over in excess of 14 million pounds a year. Stupid I think not !

Mind you my field is very specialised and we share £135 per hour

what fields that then?

 

[Adam W]

Sorry forgot to add the apprentice now has 6 or 7 years experience he came when he was 16 he is now 26 I think. It's generally the level of apprentices we receive is very poor.

Don't get me wrong I'm not mocking people who went to college. I did it and went to Uni after that long hall to get where I am today. But well worth the effort. I was trying to point out that the quality of college leavers can be very poor. And there are a lot to be said for people who say leave the forces and do a Electrical Trainee to get the certificates in some cases they are extremely skilled people. So it's time we stopped mocking the Electrical Trainee courses they have a place IMHO

Are you saying you would employ someone who had previously worked in IT and never picked up a screwdriver until 5 weeks ago, rather than someone who started a college course 3 years ago?
As mentioned these 'express' courses are meant for the people with the prior experience but not the bits of paper, not to propel people into an industry in 5 weeks when they have neither knowledge or experience.
The 'full course' (eg 2330) could be for people from the same background who wish to start a career with the relevant knowledge.

You'd have a job to work for 15 years doing anything without picking up a bit of the theory as well as the practical - it comes with doing something for a long time rather than trying to cram it all into 5 weeks...

 

[swparksey]

That's what i was thinking. You should not be allowed in someone's house with no experience. It's criminal to think of the damage you could do.

I think qualified can sometimes be different from competent.

 

[swparksey]

Are you saying you would employ someone who had previously worked in IT and never picked up a screwdriver until 5 weeks ago, rather than someone who started a college course 3 years ago?

No not at all, I would simply employ based on the interview, qualifications and experience. TBH I normally look for 2391 and 2382 then either experience or an NVQ or better still both, secondly they must be able to Program a PLC usually from scratch, and have experience in industrial control / automation, with panel building skills.

You'd have a job to work for 15 years doing anything without picking up a bit of the theory as well as the practical - it comes with doing something for a long time rather than trying to cram it all into 5 weeks...

Yes you would but you only tend to remember what you use, after 15 years I bet that lots of what you learnt in college is lost. Unless you are doing it all the time in your employement. If you have a fundamental understanding then their aint much you can't learn from a book. After all "those who can do, and those who can't teach" - George Bernard Shaw

 

[alarm man]

No not at all, I would simply employ based on the interview, qualifications and experience. TBH I normally look for 2391

well you only passed yours 18 month ago..and many a spark has expirenece of controls and panel building,something a Electrical Trainee will never see..

 

[swparksey]

Thats right I did mine 2391 18 months ago, as part of our continual improvement plan we are required to continually update our qualifications, plus the cost is offset against tax, but I fail to see what relevance that has?

I have a Electrical Trainee working for me and he has experience in panel building, mind you he also has a degree in electrical engineering, and served in the merchant navy for a number of years still a Electrical Trainee in your eyes!

 

[alarm man]

Thats right I did mine 2391 18 months ago, as part of our continual improvement plan we are required to continually update our qualifications, plus the cost is offset against tax, but I fail to see what relevance that has?

because you seem to want sparks with all the expierence but seem to think a Electrical Trainee will do the job...and whats the tax offset got to do with anything for a couple of employees courses to a multi million pound company..

 

[swparksey]

Thats my personal tax liability,

you seem to want sparks with all the expierence but seem to think a Electrical Trainee will do the job

Exactly the point I am making Experience is Key not the 3 years in the local Tec or the 5 days on the Electrical Trainee its all about the experience, great if you have the knowledge as well Electrical Trainee or 3 years, you should not simply assume that as somebody has done a 3 year tec course they are any better than the Electrical Trainee

 

[alarm man]

Thats my personal tax liability,



Exactly the point I am making Experience is Key

its called an apprenticeship...where an employer takes you on and here a strange one..pays you while you learn from the older lads who were by some strange sort of quirk,apprentices too...it'll never catch on.one day i predict there will be no apprentices and everyone will have to pay themselves to learn and the companies will employ sparks on really poor wages....good job i'll be long gone by then...:dead: