2 Years Experience; No Qualifications - I want to be a spark, where do I start?

[Tilko Misiek]

Long story short;

I dropped sixth form 2 years ago, started working for an electrical firm with my dad
Began studying from sep2010, AAT Accounting Level 2, Halfway through 3 now....

However sitting behind a desk is not my preffered way to spend my working hours,
Ive got these 2 years of experience where I actually enjoyed working.


I want to become qualified
and I want to do it as fast and as soon as possible.
What are the courses I enroll onto?
When Where how?
Can I still work as an electrical labourer/ along them lines?

I have my JIB ECS card


I need to keep working .. I really cannot afford to be an apprentice.
The company I have been working for has gone bust,
And the people that took us over practically sacked the lot of us; I was earning very good money for my inexperienced position...
Im having problems at home, and was going to move out in the next month/2 but everythings gone down hill...


please guys help me out.
I just want a straightforward path to get qualified asap

 

[trev]

College, City & Guilds 2330 is your starting point if you want to be a qualified electrician.

 

[Guest55]

You want to become qualified as fast as possible eh ?
Well hand over a large wad of money to a training centre and enroll on one of the Electrical Trainee courses.

Or go to college and spend 2-3 years learning a trade properly.
Your choice.

 

[Guest55]

And you say you have a JIB card ?
What does it say on it ? ?

 

[trev]

You want to become qualified as fast as possible eh ?
Well hand over a large wad of money to a training centre and enroll on one of the Electrical Trainee course

And get a load of quals that most employers will completely ignore

 

[Guest55]

And get a load of quals that most employers will completely ignore

Lol , they always throw in the PAT testing course with these training packages - the most pointless qual known to man :-D

 

[sedgy34]

start at college like everyone else

 

[Guest55]

start at college like everyone else

i've a feeling the OP has not the patience for the normal route.

 

[swparksey]

You want to become qualified as fast as possible eh ?
Well hand over a large wad of money to a training centre and enroll on one of the Electrical Trainee courses.

Or go to college and spend 2-3 years learning a trade properly.
Your choice.

And who says you will learn any more in college over 2 - 3 years ?

I know a few that did the college route and a few that did the Electrical Trainee route, and TBH no real difference in them.

Apart from neither of them are any good with tray work

 

[telectrix]

the college route can be done evenings. do it while you've got a day job.

 

[mickys86]

Rome wasn't built in a day.....

 

[swparksey]

the college route can be done evenings. do it while you've got a day job.

That it can and its much cheaper than a 5 day - 10 day thing.

But Longer !

If you want to do to quickly simply book the exams through an exam centre and do your NVQ online. You will need to be working to do it. Then you need to pass

 

[Adam W]

Lol , they always throw in the PAT testing course with these training packages - the most pointless qual known to man :-D

Apparently Staffordshire University do a degree in David Beckham studies, although presumably it could be of use to someone working in that field (excuse the pun), whereas knowing how to test appliances in a commercial environment wouldn't be of much use to a housebasher.

 

[Guest55]

And who says you will learn any more in college over 2 - 3 years ?

I know a few that did the college route and a few that did the Electrical Trainee route, and TBH no real difference in them.

Apart from neither of them are any good with tray work

Are you seriously trying to suggest that training for 2-3 years at college is no better than a 5 week course ????????
That definatley wins dumbest post of the week award IMO.

 

[Darkwood]

And who says you will learn any more in college over 2 - 3 years ?

I know a few that did the college route and a few that did the Electrical Trainee route, and TBH no real difference in them.

Apart from neither of them are any good with tray work

Sorry SW Sparkies but i too am also am dumbfounded by this post, you must have made this judgement using some poor examples and depends how you also compared them, asking both to chop boxes in and throw some 2.5mm then yes you may see similarities but ask the Electrical Trainee to write down on paper all the calculations you need to do to establish the 2.5mm is correct for its job and see just how much actually sank in. There will always be a Electrical Trainee that has dedication and studies at every opportunity as well as gets all the onsire exp' he can who will move forward to be successful but personally its a no brainer when suggesting 2-3yrs indepth training is better than a fast track stripped down Electrical Trainee course.

 

[i=p/u]

its whatever suits you. but i went the longer route and 3 years finally up next week. and all for less than £1000 level 2 , level 3, 2377, 2391.

itt hasnt been a rich few years, but i made sacrafices to get what i wanted, and now wish i trained as bin man oj.

 

[Guest55]

And just to add , i can spot the difference between a 3rd year apprentice and a Electrical Trainee from a mile away -
the apprentice can do conduit and 3 phase DB's , the Electrical Trainee cant.

 

[i=p/u]

well can honestly say i can just about do 90's , 45's in conduit. but i never had to do much. im sure if i bought a bunch and practised id be one step behind you just then

 

[swparksey]

That's funny

I employ a number of sparks nationwide for industrial. Chap one 15 experience no quals did a Electrical Trainee to get his quals and a site diary. I would trust his work with my life. Second example came to me as an apprentice did the 3 years college route passed all his exams and still Lacks basic numeracy and literacy skills I am sure all he did was turn up. So frankly I am talking from experience of running a business that turns over in excess of 14 million pounds a year. Stupid I think not !

Mind you my field is very specialised and we share £135 per hour

 

[Guest55]

its whatever suits you. but i went the longer route and 3 years finally up next week. and all for less than £1000 level 2 , level 3, 2377, 2391.

itt hasnt been a rich few years, but i made sacrafices to get what i wanted, and now wish i trained as bin man oj.

Congrats on sticking at the college route !
Are you glad you learnt the trade using traditional long term training ?

 

[highspark]

This guy is exactly what the short courses where made for. He has 2 years experiance. More than some of these Electrical Trainee

 

[Guest55]

That's funny

I employ a number of sparks nationwide for industrial. Chap one 15 experience no quals did a Electrical Trainee to get his quals and a site diary. I would trust his work with my life. Second example came to me as an apprentice dis the 3 years college route passed all his exams and still Lacks basic numeracy and literacy skills I am sure all he did was turn up. So frankly I am talking from experience of running a business that turn over in excess of 14 million pounds a year. Stupid I think not !

Thats a rubbish example - when a guy has 15 years experience BEFORE he starts training , obviously hes going to be better than a new college trainee.
Maybe thats just a reflection of how low standards are with apprentices round your area.
And your ealier comment is still nonsense no matter how big your turnover is.

 

[mickys86]

That's funny

I employ a number of sparks nationwide for industrial. Chap one 15 experience no quals did a Electrical Trainee to get his quals and a site diary. I would trust his work with my life. Second example came to me as an apprentice did the 3 years college route passed all his exams and still Lacks basic numeracy and literacy skills I am sure all he did was turn up. So frankly I am talking from experience of running a business that turns over in excess of 14 million pounds a year. Stupid I think not !

Mind you my field is very specialised and we share £135 per hour

I think what you had years ago is 3-4 yrs at college but to do this you had to have a job on the tools. Nowadays you can turn up at college for 3 years and come out fully qualified without having done a day on site. This to me is no better than a Electrical Trainee. I am fortunate enough at 28yrs to have an apprenticeship and I have just completed my level 3.

 

[mickys86]

Congrats on sticking at the college route !
Are you glad you learnt the trade using traditional long term training ?

I know the question isn't aimed at me but I wouldn't change anything if I could go back

 

[mickys86]

This guy is exactly what the short courses where made for. He has 2 years experiance. More than some of these Electrical Trainee

That's what i was thinking. You should not be allowed in someone's house with no experience. It's criminal to think of the damage you could do.

 

[i=p/u]

aye i am now, but there was times i thought f this. too much info to take in and it didnt make sense.

Congrats on sticking at the college route !
Are you glad you learnt the trade using traditional long term training ?

 

[swparksey]

Thats a rubbish example - when a guy has 15 years experience BEFORE he starts training , obviously hes going to be better than a new college trainee.
Maybe thats just a reflection of how low standards are with apprentices round your area.
And your ealier comment is still nonsense no matter how big your turnover is.

Sorry forgot to add the apprentice now has 6 or 7 years experience he came when he was 16 he is now 26 I think. It's generally the level of apprentices we receive is very poor.

Don't get me wrong I'm not mocking people who went to college. I did it and went to Uni after that long hall to get where I am today. But well worth the effort. I was trying to point out that the quality of college leavers can be very poor. And there are a lot to be said for people who say leave the forces and do a Electrical Trainee to get the certificates in some cases they are extremely skilled people. So it's time we stopped mocking the Electrical Trainee courses they have a place IMHO

 

[Guest111]

maybe the Electrical Trainee courses should be reserved for people with experience in the same way as fastrack courses are in other occupations.I know of several organisations that do a full length course for people with no experience wanting to enter the particular profession and a shorter course for people who have experience ,this seems to turn out a better class of worker in most cases.

 

[trev]

I don't know about the Electrical Trainee courses having a place Swparksey, I think they are something that is here to stay no matter what we think of the system.

 

[Guest55]

No-ones mocking anyone , 5week courses are perfectly viable for the needs of some trainees , usually those older than 30 whom are unable to commence years at college.
But put it this way , the ex-forces craftsmen that you speak of , whom leave the army after 15-20 years and do a 5 week course to get into house bashing - did they learn their original trade on a 5 week course or spend years at college ?
We both know the answer to that.

 

[swparksey]

I agree that are here to stay. I would be every worried if somebody came out of college or off a Electrical Trainee with no experience and started pulling my house apart.

This seems to have become another Electrical Trainee bashing thread

 

[alarm man]

That's funny

I employ a number of sparks nationwide for industrial. Chap one 15 experience no quals did a Electrical Trainee to get his quals and a site diary. I would trust his work with my life. Second example came to me as an apprentice did the 3 years college route passed all his exams and still Lacks basic numeracy and literacy skills I am sure all he did was turn up. So frankly I am talking from experience of running a business that turns over in excess of 14 million pounds a year. Stupid I think not !

Mind you my field is very specialised and we share £135 per hour

what fields that then?

 

[Adam W]

Sorry forgot to add the apprentice now has 6 or 7 years experience he came when he was 16 he is now 26 I think. It's generally the level of apprentices we receive is very poor.

Don't get me wrong I'm not mocking people who went to college. I did it and went to Uni after that long hall to get where I am today. But well worth the effort. I was trying to point out that the quality of college leavers can be very poor. And there are a lot to be said for people who say leave the forces and do a Electrical Trainee to get the certificates in some cases they are extremely skilled people. So it's time we stopped mocking the Electrical Trainee courses they have a place IMHO

Are you saying you would employ someone who had previously worked in IT and never picked up a screwdriver until 5 weeks ago, rather than someone who started a college course 3 years ago?
As mentioned these 'express' courses are meant for the people with the prior experience but not the bits of paper, not to propel people into an industry in 5 weeks when they have neither knowledge or experience.
The 'full course' (eg 2330) could be for people from the same background who wish to start a career with the relevant knowledge.

You'd have a job to work for 15 years doing anything without picking up a bit of the theory as well as the practical - it comes with doing something for a long time rather than trying to cram it all into 5 weeks...

 

[swparksey]

That's what i was thinking. You should not be allowed in someone's house with no experience. It's criminal to think of the damage you could do.

I think qualified can sometimes be different from competent.

 

[swparksey]

Are you saying you would employ someone who had previously worked in IT and never picked up a screwdriver until 5 weeks ago, rather than someone who started a college course 3 years ago?

No not at all, I would simply employ based on the interview, qualifications and experience. TBH I normally look for 2391 and 2382 then either experience or an NVQ or better still both, secondly they must be able to Program a PLC usually from scratch, and have experience in industrial control / automation, with panel building skills.

You'd have a job to work for 15 years doing anything without picking up a bit of the theory as well as the practical - it comes with doing something for a long time rather than trying to cram it all into 5 weeks...

Yes you would but you only tend to remember what you use, after 15 years I bet that lots of what you learnt in college is lost. Unless you are doing it all the time in your employement. If you have a fundamental understanding then their aint much you can't learn from a book. After all "those who can do, and those who can't teach" - George Bernard Shaw

 

[alarm man]

No not at all, I would simply employ based on the interview, qualifications and experience. TBH I normally look for 2391

well you only passed yours 18 month ago..and many a spark has expirenece of controls and panel building,something a Electrical Trainee will never see..

 

[swparksey]

Thats right I did mine 2391 18 months ago, as part of our continual improvement plan we are required to continually update our qualifications, plus the cost is offset against tax, but I fail to see what relevance that has?

I have a Electrical Trainee working for me and he has experience in panel building, mind you he also has a degree in electrical engineering, and served in the merchant navy for a number of years still a Electrical Trainee in your eyes!

 

[alarm man]

Thats right I did mine 2391 18 months ago, as part of our continual improvement plan we are required to continually update our qualifications, plus the cost is offset against tax, but I fail to see what relevance that has?

because you seem to want sparks with all the expierence but seem to think a Electrical Trainee will do the job...and whats the tax offset got to do with anything for a couple of employees courses to a multi million pound company..

 

[swparksey]

Thats my personal tax liability,

you seem to want sparks with all the expierence but seem to think a Electrical Trainee will do the job

Exactly the point I am making Experience is Key not the 3 years in the local Tec or the 5 days on the Electrical Trainee its all about the experience, great if you have the knowledge as well Electrical Trainee or 3 years, you should not simply assume that as somebody has done a 3 year tec course they are any better than the Electrical Trainee

 

[alarm man]

Thats my personal tax liability,



Exactly the point I am making Experience is Key

its called an apprenticeship...where an employer takes you on and here a strange one..pays you while you learn from the older lads who were by some strange sort of quirk,apprentices too...it'll never catch on.one day i predict there will be no apprentices and everyone will have to pay themselves to learn and the companies will employ sparks on really poor wages....good job i'll be long gone by then...:dead:

 

[swparksey]

Exactly, but back to my OP, we did not mention apprenticeships we were simply talking about 3 years or 5 days.
An apprenticeship is the best route IMHO, but not always available.

I take it from your patronising tone you have run out of things to bash Electrical Trainee with ?:laugh3:

 

[alarm man]

I take it from your patronising tone you have run out of things to bash Electrical Trainee with ?:laugh3:

not quite,got some 25mm galv left over from the weekend...
:smilewinkgrin:
:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Guest55]

...... i predict there will be no apprentices and everyone will have to pay themselves to learn and the companies will employ sparks on really poor wages....good job i'll be long gone by then...:dead:

That era has already started sadly.

 

[swparksey]

Sad and very true,

 

[Adam W]

I don't see how this guy is a 'Electrical Trainee' if he's got 15 years' experience in the trade, which I strongly suspect is what makes him good at his job rather than the 5 weeks ticking boxes in a training centre.

As I say on most of the 'Electrical Trainee' threads which I can be bothered with, this is what the Electrical Trainee course should be for and not for someone who wants to change career in 5 weeks, who you seem to be grouping together, ie if this guy with a degree in electrical engineering and 15 years experience can be a good electrician when he's done a 5 week course then surely someone who has done 10 years flipping burgers must also be a good electrician after doing the same 5 week course. I and by the sound of it most others would doubt this to be the case. In fact after doing an electrical engineering degree and clocking up 15 years of experience he's not even a 'Electrical Trainee' at all and should be disqualified as such, therefore blowing swparksey's argument out of the water.

 

[Darkwood]

Good to see you defend your corner Swsparkey but when someone says they have done a Electrical Trainee its assumed in any post its from blank to knowledge.. all you have done is quote examples of guys who have yrs amount of experience in similar fields which goes without saying time served on similar background gives good stead to be a Electrical Trainee of exceptional ability in other words they have served a long duty of time serving the industry or something tied to it to give them a massive head start, no doubt this is comparable to 2-3yrs course with tied in work experience, had you said this and explained your angle originally i would have agreed but as with all the other bullets flying at your tin hat you left out the most important relevant info to your argument ..... a guy with several years exp' in electrical engineering etc isn't by any accounts going to fall under the term 5 week 'WONDER' the very word wonder is a reference to the sheer awe of zero to electrician in weeks, all you have given is people who dont have this wonder factor as they clearly have beneficial history.
I conlude in your defense though with the dumming down and get the kids off the street attitude of the goverment that we have kid qualified from college without basic maths... but thats an issue for your interview team to sort as i can only ask how a lad/lass is given a job if they have no numerical skills; its not a hard thing to find in an interview.

 

[swparksey]

I think this is getting a bit lost, ( I know I am) the original comment was about 3 years or 5 weeks I simply trying to make the point that the Electrical Trainee does have a place. You are using an extreme with the flipping burgers analogy.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of people who pay for the Electrical Trainee with no electrical or engineering experience ever end up actually entering the industry?

I agree with you that the Electrical Trainee course should be for people working in the industry without formal qualifications, wanting to gain the correct certification, or people leaving the forces, or indeed foreign sparks looking for UK certification (not a definitive list)
But this was not what this thread was about, it all came from my comment where I said that

And who says you will learn any more in college over 2 - 3 years ?

Which is a question not a statement.

 

[trev]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, there are some excellent lads that I know that are products of the Electrical Trainee route and there are time served lads who are useless. My own brother in law is time served and I wouldn't trust him to turn a light on.
It's not the route that's important it's how the individual decides to travel it

 

[swparksey]

I agree on the whole, as you rightly say the issue is the Zero to electrician.

But we should not judge everybody who has done a fast track course the same as they come from different backgrounds.

Problem is that we get them sent to us pre college and pre qualifications, we usually finish them at the end of the 3 years if they cannot cut it, even if they have passed their exams which many have !

 

[Darkwood]

Given that reply and explanation it seems it has come across as it has to me to mean otherwise, better wording may have avoided the onslaught you received but i see your angle now but just re-iterate why it came across wrong in the fact Electrical Trainee is a derogative term which wouldn't apply to pre-experienced people topping up their already well educated background, yes they can do a five week course to dot the I's and cross the T's but they by nature of the meaning of Electrical Trainee wouldn't fall into this category.