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theskid

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ihi i am a fully qualified electrician c & G 2386 part 1,2 am1,am2 and C course also 16th edition refresher course
also i hold HNC in electrical/electronic engineering

i am 36 years of age and been working for niceic firms since i was an apprentice around 20 years ago

before part P you could get hold of them green NICEIC certificates to carry out testing if you were not in the niceic to use for foreigners and as i can gather you still can, but my question is ,as im qualified as an electical installations electrician do i need PART P to carry out and test my own work
basically do i need PART P to start off on my own/as i know i need the 2391 to join niceic domestic installer

also i have been waiting years to do the 2391 course but now im sick of asking my miser boss to put me through it and have decided to pay for it myself does anyone know if you can get help mto pay for the course,contacted my college and they said it was to do with JTL ,will be emialing them if i can find a contact

thankyou
 
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ihi i am a fully qualified electrician c & G 2386 part 1,2 am1,am2 and C course also 16th edition refresher course
also i hold HNC in electrical/electronic engineering

i am 36 years of age and been working for niceic firms since i was an apprentice around 20 years ago

before part P you could get hold of them green NICEIC certificates to carry out testing if you were not in the niceic to use for foreigners and as i can gather you still can, but my question is ,as im qualified as an electical installations electrician do i need PART P to carry out and test my own work
basically do i need PART P to start off on my own/as i know i need the 2391 to join niceic domestic installer

also i have been waiting years to do the 2391 course but now im sick of asking my miser boss to put me through it and have decided to pay for it myself does anyone know if you can get help mto pay for the course,contacted my college and they said it was to do with JTL ,will be emialing them if i can find a contact

thankyou

If you don't join one of the schemes run by NAPIT, NICEIC or ELECSA etc, you can still do domestic work BUT you have to notify the LABC for most jobs and pay a fee depending up on work which can start in the region of £100+.

This can be quite costly if you do a number of jobs so it will be cheaper in the long run to join one of the schemes pay your membership fee around £500 I believe and then you don't need to notify LABC but you still have to pay your scheme provider a sum (approx £2) for each cert you issue.

As far as I am aware you don't need 2391 if you are doing house bashing but if the work you are doing is NON domestic then you don't have to join a scheme provider but will need your 2391 really.
 
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theskid

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
thanks for the quick response

i was wondering if there is any help on paying the fees for my 2391
as i am not getting anywhere via my firm which i have been employed by for 3 years in may2009

The thing is i left a firm i was with for 9+years to come here and its one mistake i regret makeing in my life( would have been 2391 by now at my old firm)
i will propably eventually get my 2391 at my current employer but the thing is my boss has no need to put me through it ,as 2 electricians hold it, but i still do niceic testing periodic and completion for him
in my opinion firms should not be allowed to get away with this but nowadays they hold you by the balls because i would struggle getting anywhere without my 2391 its all wrong and needs to be addressed
 
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theskid

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
Are they a JIB company as if they are you will need 2391 to get graded as an Approved Electrician
no there not JIB registered also my old firm wasn't but i have been payed as an approved electrician
not right really but they get away with it
also you dont need to be with a JIB firm to get approved status i just need my 2391 that right?

what im looking for here is can i fund myself to carry out the 2391 course and get help from somewhere for the fees?
 
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Kris

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #6
thanks for the quick response

i was wondering if there is any help on paying the fees for my 2391
as i am not getting anywhere via my firm which i have been employed by for 3 years in may2009

The thing is i left a firm i was with for 9+years to come here and its one mistake i regret makeing in my life( would have been 2391 by now at my old firm)
i will propably eventually get my 2391 at my current employer but the thing is my boss has no need to put me through it ,as 2 electricians hold it, but i still do niceic testing periodic and completion for him
in my opinion firms should not be allowed to get away with this but nowadays they hold you by the balls because i would struggle getting anywhere without my 2391 its all wrong and needs to be addressed
To put it bluntly your too old!

JTL won't help anyone over 19 with fees and I don't think they would if you were under 19 as its a short course (not too sure on that one) I did it this year for £638 inc VAT but remember to shop about as the price varies massively!

Almost forgot they won't let you do it til your 17th edition qualified and that will set you back £450 for the 3 day course!
 
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part P is for plumbers and kithen fitters and the like doing electrical work
in domestic situations.It is not meant for proper sparks,though not a lot of people seem to know that,especially recruitment agencies.
 
C

Chappers

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
part P is for plumbers and kithen fitters and the like doing electrical work
in domestic situations.It is not meant for proper sparks,though not a lot of people seem to know that,especially recruitment agencies.
I only do industrial/commercial and still don't 'get' part P. I thought that even proper sparks had to get into a part P scheme or something before they could sign off their own work if it was carried out in a domestic area that comes under part P?
 
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WarrenG

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #9
I only do industrial/commercial and still don't 'get' part P. I thought that even proper sparks had to get into a part P scheme or something before they could sign off their own work if it was carried out in a domestic area that comes under part P?
For a spark to sign off any work that falls under Part P of the Building Regulations (electrical Safety) they need to either be a member of a government approved scheme i.e. Napit, Niceic, Elecsa etc or notify the local building control before starting the work so that it can be inspected by them at a cost.

Part P isn't a qualification as some people think.

For Kitchen fitters, plumbers etc it is a way to show compliance (competent to carry out work) with electrical safety. i.e. so they know how to safely isolate the supply etc.

Thats why it is only a short course.
 
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dom85

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
I'm starting the 2391 in febuary. Because I'm looking for work, while on jobseekers, any course which is under 16 hrs a week is paid for by them. You can do your 2391 if you have your 16th edition but not your 17th. You have to take your certificate when you get inducted. Also part P is only for non qualified electricians who do minor electrics in their jobs such as kitchen fitters, gas engineers etc.
 
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sparkyt

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #12
hasel5

i agree,
i am a fully qualified spark with several years experience.
i am a member of the niceic as an approved contractor and also under their domestic installer status. i am not "qualified " by that scheme but approved to carry out all work in a domestic work in a dwelling without having to rope in the local building autority at 100 quid a go.
several colleges/training centres provide some sort of part p course which only really makes you aware of the regulations in place that are required when carrying out said works.if u ask me then no one apart from a qualified time spent spark should be working on electrics full stop. i have been called to many an example of the "part p qualified" kitchen fitter who has bodged some sockets in and documented the whole thing incorrectly. as for the 2391 qualification this is not a necesatity but highly reccomended for joining the scheme with the niceic. as long as you can demonstrate good working knowlage then this is deemed sufficient. sorry for the rant, hope this helps.
 
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Spudnik

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #13
Also part P is only for non qualified electricians who do minor electrics in their jobs such as kitchen fitters, gas engineers etc.
Part P is a building regulation, not a qualification, and applies to ANYONE doing electrical installations.
 
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stean

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
From what I have been told is that all domestic work apart from minor works carried out has to be done by a part P registered electrician/firm, this is regardless of wheather or not you are a fully qualified electrician or qualified to 2391.
 
J

JulesHurley

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #15
How long has Part P been about?

I am amazed / concerned that even now, there is so much confusion about self certification, even from electricians.

Dom 85 - I dont know who gave you the information, but they need to be shot.
 
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Tiger

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #16
part P started in 2005 and is only building regs, also they deemed at the same time to carry out electrical works on domestic dwellings you must be qualified to a minimum standard and belong to a organization such as NICEIC. Surely this can only be a good thing. Its a start, stop slagging it off. The reason why you get the bodging kitchen fitters is because they pay a lot of money for the fast track courses. This i think where the problem lies. If you complete the courses properly and are a proffesional responsible trades man then you would be more than capable to carry any domestic electricall works. I Personally think the NICEIC are quite strict on there domestic installer scheme and does eliminate your average idiot

hasel5

i agree,
i am a fully qualified spark with several years experience.
i am a member of the niceic as an approved contractor and also under their domestic installer status. i am not "qualified " by that scheme but approved to carry out all work in a domestic work in a dwelling without having to rope in the local building autority at 100 quid a go.
several colleges/training centres provide some sort of part p course which only really makes you aware of the regulations in place that are required when carrying out said works.if u ask me then no one apart from a qualified time spent spark should be working on electrics full stop. i have been called to many an example of the "part p qualified" kitchen fitter who has bodged some sockets in and documented the whole thing incorrectly. as for the 2391 qualification this is not a necesatity but highly reccomended for joining the scheme with the niceic. as long as you can demonstrate good working knowlage then this is deemed sufficient. sorry for the rant, hope this helps.

If thats the case he can't be NICEIC registered as there inspectors are quite good and will not let you join the scheme if your testing is not up to scratch. Maybe the kitchen fitter is a lying cowboy and your taring everyone with the same brush:)
 
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WarrenG

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #17
NICEIC are no different to Napit, ECA or Elecsa as they are all government approved scheme's and all have Inspectors to inspect there members work and qualifications.
 
T

Tiger

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #18
NICEIC are no different to Napit, ECA or Elecsa as they are all government approved scheme's and all have Inspectors to inspect there members work and qualifications.
Sorry I didn't mean to imply they were, just using NICEIC as an example
 
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T

theskid

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #19
I'm starting the 2391 in febuary. Because I'm looking for work, while on jobseekers, any course which is under 16 hrs a week is paid for by them. You can do your 2391 if you have your 16th edition but not your 17th. You have to take your certificate when you get inducted. Also part P is only for non qualified electricians who do minor electrics in their jobs such as kitchen fitters, gas engineers etc.
i rang my local college that do the 2391 up they said if i was unemployed i would not get any help what so ever.So your saying that you get it paid for if your claiming job seekers allowance?
And im only 16th edition,are you sure you can not take it if you have taken the 17th 3 day course,why would it make any difference?
 
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Spudnik

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
You may find you would be helped if you have been signing on for 6 months or over.
 
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sparkyt

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #21
part P started in 2005 and is only building regs, also they deemed at the same time to carry out electrical works on domestic dwellings you must be qualified to a minimum standard and belong to a organization such as NICEIC. Surely this can only be a good thing. Its a start, stop slagging it off. The reason why you get the bodging kitchen fitters is because they pay a lot of money for the fast track courses. This i think where the problem lies. If you complete the courses properly and are a proffesional responsible trades man then you would be more than capable to carry any domestic electricall works. I Personally think the NICEIC are quite strict on there domestic installer scheme and does eliminate your average idiot




If thats the case he can't be NICEIC registered as there inspectors are quite good and will not let you join the scheme if your testing is not up to scratch. Maybe the kitchen fitter is a lying cowboy and your taring everyone with the same brush:)

Tiger,

it was only last week i visited a job that had been carried out by an niceic domestic installer.(certs and reg number to prove) this was a new install to a kitchen extension, upgrade fuseboard and bonding etc. I was shocked to find what i did. where do i start.

all work designed, quoted and carried out after july 08

c/u replaced for the older style split board ie. m/s and 1 rcd- non 17th compliant-had noted on the cert "was designed before the 16th edition" !!!???

cerftification filled in incorrecctly, no mention of any existing circuits, just ones that had been installed new. readings for new ring didnt look very realistic.

tails from meter lashed around pipes and around other cable through the garage to the "new" c/u- approx 6m with no protection

all sockets/switches poorly terminated, copper expossed and a break in the ring. connections at switches arcing.

cooker point with skt rammed into a 25mm box - cables dammaged

new cable sheathed diagoanaly across the kitchen wall!!

all fire rated downlights cut in with incorrect holesaw-not one of them fits correctly.

all sockets different hight from worktops - result 5mm-45mm difference.

i didnt stick about to see much more. i was shocked, disgusted and most of all felt awfull having to explain to the customer, the defects to his "new" kitchen.

sadly this isnt the first of this kind of thing i have seen and dont expect it will b the last.

one further point- i disagree with the what u say about the inspectors.on my last inspection i wasnt asked for any up to date documentation, no proof i could still test or even that i was conversant wth the 17th. what am i paying all that money for?

sorry for the rant but had to be said

regards:mad:
 
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Tiger

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
Rant away mate, you should report the fellow. I'am surprised about your inspector though, Mines **** hot everything has to be spot on even requires complaint procedures, health and safety, checks my public liability the works.
 
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dom85

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #23
theskid, i ment if you have the 16th but not the 17th. i didnt mean you cant do it if you have the 17th.

jules hurley. electricians have to work in accordance with part p. we dont have to go and do a bulls**t part p course is what i was saying.
 
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Tiger

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
Who ever signs it off has to have a part p to say it complies with building regs
 
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sparkyt

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #25
Rant away mate, you should report the fellow. I'am surprised about your inspector though, Mines **** hot everything has to be spot on even requires complaint procedures, health and safety, checks my public liability the works.

i think i will be speakinng to the niceic regarding this installation, i get the impression that the original installer is just perhaps not competent enough to be carrying out electrical work as opposed to just being a rough a**e. the kind of things written on the cert were just bizare. it turns out that he had told the customer that he would be bringing his niceic inspector along to view the work on his annual review. shame he didnt.
 
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theskid

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
theskid, i ment if you have the 16th but not the 17th. i didnt mean you cant do it if you have the 17th.

jules hurley. electricians have to work in accordance with part p. we dont have to go and do a bulls**t part p course is what i was saying.
Just want to know if i gave my job up to do 2391 which im only 16th editionwould it get paid for or do i have to be unemployed for over 6 months?How long have you been unemployed? DOM85
also would i get help with 17th if i was unemployed and did it after 2391 as not to go over 30 hours a week thing?
 
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