Earthing mat is making me ill !

[sunnyod]

It doesn't make sense to use shielded cable for an earth connection, because the main method by which shielding works (e.g. to stop car ignition systems causing crackling noises on your stereo) is to surround the important conductor with an earthed one. So you would be shielding an earthed wire with another earthed wire. There are lab techniques where this is necessary but it is not applicable to your earth mat.

It would be like trying to wash tap water off a surface using tap water.

Ah, thanks for the explanation... makes sense

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I have a multimeter. If I put the black pin on earth (like metal surface on radiator pipe?) and red pin on the mat connected to the mains, what would I see if the earthing is faulty?

You can't effectively test earthing like that. If the pipe is connected to earth it is likely to be via the earthing system of your installation, so you should not see any significant voltage between the two, or between any two supposedly earthed things. Say less than a couple of volts on the 20V AC range. But it doesn't tell you that the earthing is sound, for that you need the proper test equipment that an electrician would use.

You could however check and post the Ra of the electrode and/or Zs of the supply from the EICR, which would be informative.

 

[sunnyod]

FYI I just nicked a skewer from the missus and stamped it into the ground outside and connected the mat cable to it. Looks like its earthing correctly. Is there a way to test it? Mat feels different, no more tingling

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Put meter leads into COM and V/Ω. Set the meter to 200V AC (if it has separate switched ranges). Disconnect both wires from the mat. Connect one probe of the meter to the wire from outside and the other to the wire from your socket that had been used to earth the mat. For your safety, if you are inside, treat the wire from outside as though it were live, and vice versa.

Report the reading. If it is less than 20V, switch down to 20V range. Better still, post a pic of the meter displaying the reading, for an independent observation that it is correctly set.

 

[sunnyod]

Not sure if I’ve done it right, manual was showing no reading. I switched to auto and it would flash up a value (normally around 42-44) then reset. This is the read I managed to capture

 

[brianmoooore]

You are on the resistance range. AC volts is two to the left.

 

[sunnyod]

Oops. Thanks Brian...

 

[MJPD29]

Although it is almost certainly all in your head, if your that obsessed with earthing yourself buy a metal bed frame stick a spike in the ground and earth the bed. Problem solved.

 

[sunnyod]

Although it is almost certainly all in your head, if your that obsessed with earthing yourself buy a metal bed frame stick a spike in the ground and earth the bed. Problem solved.

You'll probably still think I'm crazy after watching this, but it could be really eye opening for you too

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/liveconnected/down-to-earth-cropped-compressed.mp4

 

[Lucien Nunes]

0.08 volts, 80 millivolts. That's the sort of reading I was expecting. There are some caveats about its accuracy but the main one (measurement lead resistance) has been dealt with already when you showed the resistance reading. The other important one is that the meter will be reading only the voltage present at frequencies within its measurement capability, which includes all electrical power lines. However if you were under the mast of a radio or TV station transmitter, that might not be a sufficient indication that there were not strong fields at radio frequencies inducing a voltage that the multimeter cannot sense.

I think you need to look carefully at what other factors could be influencing your sensation of the effects of the mat; they can be real effects, and again I must say I am not doubting what you experience. But 80mV w.r.t. true earth, contacting the body in at one point only and relying on the stray capacitance to earth to complete the circuit, cannot realistically pass enough current to create a sensory effect.

The stray capacitance of a body is typically less than 1nF, more likely around 200pF. It will be less to true earth if part of your environment is shielded from earth by the mat at mains earth. Let's call it 500pF anyway.
At 50Hz, 500pF will have a capacitive reactance of 1/(2*PI*50*5e-10) ~6MΩ
0.08V between mat and true earth gives a touch current between you and the mat of 0.08/6M = 13 nanoamps. I can just about feel a current of 10,000 times that, when concentrated in my finger and I brush it over a surface to maximise the sensory response to muscular reaction (like a dowsing rod). It takes about 100,000 times that current to feel as an actual electrical tingle.

You'll probably still think I'm crazy after watching this, but it could be really eye opening for you too

I will watch the whole thing. I have just watched the first two minutes and counted six factual errors or abstract ideas presented as facts.

 

[Megawatt]

Hi All


Sorry for the lengthy first post and use of any non-standard terminology. I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to electronics, hopefully I've done enough due diligence so I'm not asking anything too silly lol ?


I've bought a Grounding mat that plugs into the mains (earth wire only) which I use for grounding my body during the day and overnight. Problem is I'm waking up in the middle of the night and my I feel like i've got an electric charge wherever my body is in contact with the mat. I've only been using it for a few days so far and the seller is saying it'll pass, however i'm not sure. I'm also sometimes getting head & neck in the morning. It's a mat like this one... Grounding mats, Earthing Yoga and Fitness mat - https://www.groundology.co.uk/earthing/grounding-mats.


I've done a bit of research into this and found that it's possible that I've either got electro hypersensitivity, or there could be some electrical interference on the earth in my house (or maybe something else?). I've got a multimeter and have tried to compare the earth with a baseline source (earthing rod in garden) and I can't see much AC current coming off of it, but I do notice that it's frequency is 50hz (I'm in the UK), so maybe it's picking up some EMF or something not sure. I've tested all plug sockets with a socket tester and all seems to be fine, earth is working normally apparently. I've got a couple of options from what I can tell

1. Find out if the mains is faulty and fix that. Socket tester shows it's clean, so not sure if there's anything else I can do to test this?
2. Upgrade the cable that I'm using to connect the mains to the mat. Guess it would need to be shielded from EMF and also filter/block out any AC current that might on the mains earth and is leaking onto the mat
   Here is an example of a product that already does this and Video here, but I'm not sure what components would be needed to replicate this. Maybe it's a ferrite core to filter any leaking current? Any recommendations for what shielded cable to use? I guess it's not advisable to use something like speaker cable that can carry too much voltage, for safety reasons? Btw, I'm trying to save money otherwise I'd just buy the example cable above (I'm looking at a multi room setup so would work out a lot)
3. Fit a grounding rod like this one (3/8in (9.5mm) x 4ft (1200mm) Copperbond Earth Rod with Cable Clamp - https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/229310) and connect it with shielded cabling into the house
   Can I use thicker cable initially so I can split it and connect up a few rooms (then use thinner (safer) cables to join with connections to the mats)? Again, I'm guessing both types of cable would need to be shielded?

Thanks so much for any help guys! Reason I'm doing this is because I've recently found a skin melanoma and noticed that the EMF levels (high and low) in the house are really high. I'm trying to reduce them all as much as I can


Cheers


Sunny

I’ve got to ask, can you not just use a piece of rubber mat with no grounding

 

[sunnyod]

0.08 volts, 80 millivolts. That's the sort of reading I was expecting. There are some caveats about its accuracy but the main one (measurement lead resistance) has been dealt with already when you showed the resistance reading. The other important one is that the meter will be reading only the voltage present at frequencies within its measurement capability, which includes all electrical power lines. However if you were under the mast of a radio or TV station transmitter, that might not be a sufficient indication that there were not strong fields at radio frequencies inducing a voltage that the multimeter cannot sense.

I think you need to look carefully at what other factors could be influencing your sensation of the effects of the mat; they can be real effects, and again I must say I am not doubting what you experience. But 80mV w.r.t. true earth, contacting the body in at one point only and relying on the stray capacitance to earth to complete the circuit, cannot realistically pass enough current to create a sensory effect.

The stray capacitance of a body is typically less than 1nF, more likely around 200pF. It will be less to true earth if part of your environment is shielded from earth by the mat at mains earth. Let's call it 500pF anyway.
At 50Hz, 500pF will have a capacitive reactance of 1/(2*PI*50*5e-10) ~6MΩ
0.08V between mat and true earth gives a touch current between you and the mat of 0.08/6M = 13 nanoamps. I can just about feel a current of 10,000 times that, when concentrated in my finger and I brush it over a surface to maximise the sensory response to muscular reaction (like a dowsing rod). It takes about 100,000 times that current to feel as an actual electrical tingle.



I will watch the whole thing. I have just watched the first two minutes and counted six factual errors or abstract ideas presented as facts.

Thanks for taking the time to work that out for me Lucien, really appreciated. I can't lie though, it will probably take me a couple years before I can understand what was said lol. My high level understanding is that you're saying that any current in the mat caused by connecting to mains earth should be imperceptible based on the readings I've given. I don't doubt your understanding on this subject, but there is definitely something waking me up for the past 3 nights at 5am, 5am and 4am last night. Maybe there's something happening on the system at that time, no idea, but I never wake up before 6:30am! I dunno, I feel like the brother from Better Call Saul!!!

I've noted down what you said and will try and get my head around it. Thanks for watching the vid, let me know what you think once you've seen it all. Interested to hear where its flaws are.... cheers again bud!

 

[sunnyod]

I’ve got to ask, can you not just use a piece of rubber mat with no grounding

I'm not trying insulate myself from the mains or emf, my goal is to ground with true earth...

 

[Deleted account]

What a load on b********s on that website.

I know I should be more tolerant to other peoples superstitious beliefs. But that websites content is a load of drivel claiming to be scientific fact.

I think there is more chance of me believing in god and jesus and all that stuff than what’s on that site.

 

[static zap]

If you are going for earthing to the outside world -- a Volt stick
could be a useful friend.
---
Tingly items in my life include --DVD players and Cheap phone chargers .
(since we got rid of 50Hz transformers --Down hill)

.. Just like self diagnosis from Medical symptoms --- Some things you read on the internet --will take your imagination --Unhealthy places.

(the above one -medical is fun when you look it up for someone-else...
..Then start to convince yourself)

Go out to the country side .
And do think --is some one getting under my skin to sell something.
---
Gas cental heating -- dry some washing on radiator -and wear cotton.

 

[MJPD29]

You'll probably still think I'm crazy after watching this, but it could be really eye opening for you too

https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/liveconnected/down-to-earth-cropped-compressed.mp4

I just carried out a quick case study. My son ironically has colic also, so after standing outin my garden for nearly 10 minutes I can confirm that he has not stopped crying or showed any intention of doing so, and the inflammation in my lower back has in no way got any better.

 

[Darkwood]

Just through pure curiosity and trying to understand why you believe in this grounding, I watched the video and also looked into papers of experiments and claims arising from them.

Noted, the video you posted is full of questionable claims and does make misleading claims, also making comparisons that are simply not connected and even work in different way yet pushes them as though the information matters.
Looking into a few papers of case studies I find they fall far short of any proper experiment, there is no control used, the same experiment was done on one group, they were told what was happening and what the claims are and there was no other groups subject to the same conditions without said information.

Psychological conditioning is already proven to reduce pain, there is nothing in these experiments to eliminate that or confirm it isn't the cause of the perception the patients get about reduced pain.

You say this has been peered reviewed, that means nothing without knowing the results of the peer review, I cannot find any peer reviewed basis to these claims that have been passed and accepted as real results due to grounding, please cite me this peer review you suggest so I can see what the results are of it.

From my life experience and career experience here I cannot believe there is any truth in this, no verifiable and repeatable evidence has ever been submitted, from what I can find where experiments has occurred I conclude they are poorly devised and lack any form of control subject which more or less make them worthless experiments.

It also doesn't give me a lot of positivity about this when the video's main characters have vested financial interests in this idea so the last person you want to trust with your money is the man selling snake oil.

 

[hasel5]

What a load of Drivel this post is only tingling you will get is the removal of money from your bank account by a bunch of scammers selling the product in the first place

Well thats my take

BTW got some super Special bonding clamps that come in pretty colours and cable that is extra bendy

 

[James]

Just to add my little bit, I do have a good understanding of many things electrical.
I am not convinced by the video, I have watched it from start to finish.

however, there is some merit in the fact that if you think something is helping/ healing / good for you, It may well do so even if it has no active properties that do so.
the mind is a thing that we do not fully understand (not even close)

Depending on the exact method of grounding (earthing system) at you property, the device itself is in my opinion capable of doing the exact opposite to what you intend.

many homes can sometimes share the same earth cable and each of them will inject electrical noise into it.
some high frequency from power supply's to microwaves and tv's that Simpley cant be measured using a multi meter.
If these harmonic frequency's are indeed being carried by your earthing system then you are sleeping on an inefficient transmitter of them when you plug it in.
although they may not be transmitted particularly well, the fact you are so close to the transmitter will mean that you get a much higher dose than if they were kept in the cables required to supply electrical equipment that are some distance away from you.

Bottom Line,
If my wife gave me a new pillow and i had 2 nights of poor sleep with, it would not be there for the 3rd night.
If she put a different duvet on that did the same, it would have the same outcome.

Under no circumstances would I allow her to put a large aerial under our bed.

something that is supposed to make you better but in fact makes you worse is an item that should be sent back for a full refund ASAP, not given the chance to be tested until it is out of the cooling off period of sale.

 

[Timbo]

From all that has gone before I have to conclude that connecting myself to true earth is not going to help with the pain caused by my prolapsed disc and therefore I'll stick with my doctor's prescription of painkillers until I get the operation to sort it out.