Neutrals at switches

[Guest 004]

Went to a job today, twin and earth, and it had been wired 2 plate, which of course meant that all the switches had the neutral taken to them.

WTF, if I had done that in my apprenticeship I would have been kicked off site.

Is this how things are done now, god I hope not.

 

[jeremy]

At college I was taught 2 methods; either take a SW/L and N to the fitting or a L and SW/L to the switch, whichever method is suitable for the application. If I'm wiring a light for a loft conversion why would I extend the supply to the fitting, probably on the same route as going to the switch, then come back again? I didn't have the benefit of an apprenticeship, but do try to apply logic to my actions and can't see why it's wrong to take a neutral to a switch position but if it is wrong, am perfectly ready to be educated.

 

[morph]

well if wiring a loft conversion
where will the circuit best be fed from? the switches because the supplies will run nicely under the floor up to the switches and then off to the fancy fittings that cant take 3 cables maybe ??

 

[Electricalserv]

Why haven't they made a switch that encorparates this then? If connector blocks are needed then obviously non of the manufacturers have picked up on the amount of sparks useing this method.

 

[IQ Electrical]

Why haven't they made a switch that encorparates this then? If connector blocks are needed then obviously non of the manufacturers have picked up on the amount of sparks useing this method.

Hager!

The wall switches feature a neutral loop terminal contained within the accessory. This allows contractors to complete the loop connection in the switch instead of in the ceiling rose to save extra wiring to the light fittings. Not only does this reduce cabling and the uncomfortable time spent working at ceiling level, but it also meets the needs of BS7671 since the connections are readily accessible for inspection.

 

[sparks1234]

If there's no need for a neutral at the switch

What a daft statement, look at it from a different point of view, there is no need for a permenant live at a ceiling pendant but its there.

Its just a different way of wiring, what can you fail it on?.....nothing.

 

[Guest 004]

who are hager? was he not in a cartoon or something,

a brand that i would not use, unless specified, hey who is specifying hager????

would love to see the 'better' brands do it though, that would close this argument for good!

 

[Electricalserv]

Personally I think its nonsense having so many cables in a small backbox. Especially when 2 & 3 way switching is involved. Just too many cables.

 

[IQ Electrical]

who are hager? was he not in a cartoon or something,

a brand that i would not use, unless specified, hey who is specifying hager????

would love to see the 'better' brands do it though, that would close this argument for good!

It's closed, case dismissed, the prosecution failed to turn up!

 

[VoltzElectrical]

how do i insert a photo?

 

[Guest 004]

What a daft statement, look at it from a different point of view, there is no need for a permenant live at a ceiling pendant but its there.

Its just a different way of wiring, what can you fail it on?.....nothing.

emergency lighting perhaps?

 

[Electricalserv]

With so many cables in a backbox there is certainly a more likelihood of damage to one of them cables. Especially in regards to screwing the faceplate on.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

hope this works

 

[VoltzElectrical]

not the switch! I know THAT works!!

 

[jeremy]

Isn't there an argument for both systems depending on the application?

 

[morph]

plenty of space in there

 

[Guest 004]

It's closed, case dismissed, the prosecution failed to turn up!

sorry iq I forgot that you are always right.

ok to conclude

back in the day 'we' was taught not to do it
there is not a reg against it
modern wiring practices have adopted the method, just wish crabtree, mk and others would.

Not been on the tools for 10 years, but I think i would use the looped neutral at switches now, if it made things easier, but I certainly would not have considered it before today!

I am converted....

 

[IQ Electrical]

Isn't there an argument for both systems depending on the application?

I (and others) did make that point about 50 posts ago.

 

[Guest 004]

Isn't there an argument for both systems depending on the application?

for sure

as already stated, I would not have considered it before today

 

[sparks1234]

I don't like neutrals at switches if they are not needed, and you will have to block it, which I totally disagree with.

Why do you disagree with it? most connections are within a screw terminal of some sort or other, thats all a block is

 

[Guest 004]

View attachment 5409

hope this works

that is just pants, and why I would not do it

 

[Guest 004]

Why do you disagree with it? most connections are within a screw terminal of some sort or other, thats all a block is

ok lets go to bigger switches, and by that I mean 4, 5 ,6 gangs and upwards, and you had maybe 5,6 feeds at the one switch, its going to look pretty ugly, and what would you think if you took the switch off and 7 connector blocks sprung out at you!

 

[VoltzElectrical]

that is just pants, and why I would not do it

Nowt wrong with it. it works, all terminations available for inspection. Why is it PANTS?

 

[Electricalserv]

View attachment 5409

hope this works

Percentage is rising of nipping one of them with screws

 

[jason jones]

personnaly neutral at switch because im fed up of going round to my brothers every time he buys new lights and they wont switch cuz the dope has bundled everything that is brown in the same block and i have to sort it out.

 

[Guest 004]

personnaly neutral at switch because im fed up of going round to my brothers every time he buys new lights and they wont switch cuz the dope has bundled everything that is brown in the same block and i have to sort it out.

but how many times have you been asked to fix a light 'cos be blows up when the switch is turned on, always a nice little earner

 

[sparks1234]

ok lets go to bigger switches, and by that I mean 4, 5 ,6 gangs and upwards, and you had maybe 5,6 feeds at the one switch, its going to look pretty ugly, and what would you think if you took the switch off and 7 connector blocks sprung out at you!

Yep, agree with you but generally I think the post was directed at normal run of the mill rewire.

 

[Electricalserv]

Also if you've got a dimmer switch less room

 

[IQ Electrical]

ok lets go to bigger switches, and by that I mean 4, 5 ,6 gangs and upwards, and you had maybe 5,6 feeds at the one switch, its going to look pretty ugly, and what would you think if you took the switch off and 7 connector blocks sprung out at you!

And that could be a scenario where neutrals at the switch are not a good idea.

Again, as a competent designer /installer, you choose the wiring system that best suits the installation, don't just make sweeping statements on whether a method is right or wrong!

I'm certainly not always right, but I try to look at things objectively without propagating the weird myths that seem to pop up constantly.

 

[Guest 004]

Yep, agree with you but generally I think the post was directed at normal run of the mill rewire.

sorry I am more of an commercial/industrial installer

 

[timo]

Been working on and doing this myself for a while. Its common in new build apartments i have found and also i do it when wiring for down lights. Saves guessing what light the guy put the rats nest of a joint box. Nothing wrong with it just a "modern" way i guess.