Old WLYEX fusebox

[LewisM]

I'm swapping out some old 3036 rewireables for some 60898 plug in Mcbs for an old boy foc, do you have to change the bases as well or is it just pull out push in?

Seems simple but I've never swapped them before and I want make sure I have all the bits

 

[Mikegh]

The problem with minor upgrades is it tends to prolong the life of the installation

Beyond what it should be

 

[brianmoooore]

they will if you have access to aneedle file.

This would be preferable to leaving the bases off altogether (which would also work, but beyond dangerous). The raised section around the base would also need to be removed to allow the breakers to be pushed fully in.

 

[Lister1987]

4

The problem with minor upgrades is it tends to prolong the life of the installation

Beyond what it should be

5 words that are an Electricians best friend; This install is life expired

 

[pc1966]

The problem with minor upgrades is it tends to prolong the life of the installation

Beyond what it should be

True, but some judgment is also needed.

If this were a rental property or a home folk are just moving in to then it should be brought right up to date with a new board and very likely a rewire as there won't be enough sockets and or them in useful places (as probably installation dates from 70s or earlier) and/or there will be other EICR issues of properly investigated.

However, the OP's situation was how to help out some old codger[*] who has been there for many years but has only a few to go, and very likely lacks the resources or stamina for the disruption of a rewire. In that sort of case the plug-in breakers are a fast way to avoid the risky situation of no lights for days until help is available to rewire a fuse.

* Apologies to any old codgers on here, I'm heading that way myself and at an accelerating pace...

 

[LewisM]

All sorted thanks for you help got new ones from Screwfix in the end

 

[Mikegh]

An instantaneous shower needs an rcd imo

Not sure what bs7671 says on that

 

[LewisM]

An instantaneous shower needs an rcd imo

Not sure what bs7671 says on that

All the comments that have been posted are correct about changing etc and I am a qualified electrician however all I wanted to know was if the bases needed changing the rest is irrelevant.

 

[Mikegh]

All the comments that have been posted are correct about changing etc and I am a qualified electrician however all I wanted to know was if the bases needed changing the rest is irrelevant.

That's no problem

Just saying looking at that board with the instantaneous electric shower on an MCB i wouldn't be happy

 

[ipf]

That's no problem

Just saying looking at that board with the instantaneous electric shower on an MCB i wouldn't be happy

Why not, if it tests well?
Presumably OK when it was installed.... and probably been like that for a decade or two (or three, or more).

 

[Mikegh]

Why not, if it tests well?
Presumably OK when it was installed.... and probably been like that for a decade or two (or three, or more).

Ok well I'm not familiar with bs7671 don't work here ,so can be shot down

How long until the heater tank develops a fault

 

[pc1966]

Ok well I'm not familiar with bs7671 don't work here ,so can be shot down

These days is does, but probably at the time of installation (16th edition) then supplementary bonding was enough for a bathroom installation.

The Best Practice Guide #4 would have C3 for this case (no RCD but bonding good) or C2 if no supplementaty bonding when inspecting things.

How long until the heater tank develops a fault

So long as the CPC is good then ADS is ensured.

Of course, even if the regs did not say so you would still want an RCD for other reasons. Like protecting against the results of cable damage, or to reduce the risk of a double fault being fatal (so #1 loss of CPC and then #2 insulation failure).

 

[brianmoooore]

As I posted in another thread on here recently, the first electric shower I installed had the bare heating wire in direct contact with water flowing through a perspex block. 4mm2 cable, rewireable fuse, and RCDs hadn't been heard of.

 

[ipf]

Ok well I'm not familiar with bs7671 don't work here ,so can be shot down

How long until the heater tank develops a fault

Obviously not talking about all cases but, believe me, there really are much worse things being installed these days than many of the well constructed installations of the period we're talking.
Regulations have tightened and improved, in most cases to good effect. Work standards haven't.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Some older installations are a work of art compared with the lashes in new wiring you see today

some recent stuff I come across looks like it was thrown in by a bunch of trained apes

 

[ipf]

Some older installations are a work of art compared with the lashes in new wiring you see today

some recent stuff I come across looks like it was thrown in by a bunch of trained apes

Trained? ?

 

[littlespark]

I hope the apes you’re talking about aren’t the same apes that show up on members of this forums profiles

 

[telectrix]

I hope the apes you’re talking about aren’t the same apes that show up on members of this forums profiles

 

[Mikegh]

These days is does, but probably at the time of installation (16th edition) then supplementary bonding was enough for a bathroom installation.

The Best Practice Guide #4 would have C3 for this case (no RCD but bonding good) or C2 if no supplementaty bonding when inspecting things.

So long as the CPC is good then ADS is ensured.

Of course, even if the regs did not say so you would still want an RCD for other reasons. Like protecting against the results of cable damage, or to reduce the risk of a double fault being fatal (so #1 loss of CPC and then #2 insulation failure).

The rcd will clear the fault

 

[UNG]

The problem with minor upgrades is it tends to prolong the life of the installation

Beyond what it should be

Not quite sure what point you are trying to make here, this is very cheap minor improvement to make a guy's final years a bit easier when a major upgrade might cause that much stress it would see him off and having an RCD would not stop it happening

An instantaneous shower needs an rcd imo

Not sure what bs7671 says on that

I have to chuckle at the blind faith that people have in RCD's when they are more prone to failure than the MCB

That's no problem

Just saying looking at that board with the instantaneous electric shower on an MCB i wouldn't be happy

I never realised as a child the level of risk I was exposed to when the sockets, the shower and for that matter the whole installation had no RCD's then I started work and for a number years myself and the people I worked with did not routinely install RCD's because they weren't around then. But back then equipment was built to last and we worked with what we had and rarely tested anything other than a Pyro when ELCB's (current type) became available we were taught that they were only for secondary protection these days the quality of some equipment that is installed is debatable so I can only surmise that RCD's are needed as primary protection to cover up for poor installation design and the poor quality kit that is available and also to protect people from their own stupidity or that electrician that doesn't know what he is doing

 

[pc1966]

I never realised as a child the level of risk I was exposed to when the sockets

Many years ago the real driver for RCD use was folk being killed outside when they mowed through a cable or similar while barefoot or in sandals.

I am in favour of RCD, but also don't like the moves to make them mandatory in all cases (2nd amendment proposal) as I know full well there are places like data centres where RCD are unsuitable for reliability/accumulated leakage issues, but that you still want a non-sparky to be able to swap out a UPS or similar in a hurry if it fails.

 

[ipf]

Many years ago the real driver for RCD use was folk being killed outside when they mowed through a cable or similar while barefoot or in sandals.

I can understand where you're coming from. They were required for domestic TT's and for sockets intended for external use.
Just found this from 15th edition guide....1981, when they were really coming into use.
You can see how things have come on reading the point about them not being suitable for TNC/earth concentric systems. Mind you, although those systems were starting to multiply.....by far the most installations were TNS, anyway.

 

[Powerhive]

You can't be serious? I know it's an outlay and he is a pal but in the long run you are doing him no favours. Nor yourself if it comes back to bite you on the arse.
Stick him a cheap consumer unit in with RCD protection.

 

[ipf]

You can't be serious? I know it's an outlay and he is a pal but in the long run you are doing him no favours. Nor yourself if it comes back to bite you on the arse.
Stick him a cheap consumer unit in with RCD protection.

Another case of that blind faith, it seems......or John McEnroe.