Old WLYEX fusebox

[LewisM]

I'm swapping out some old 3036 rewireables for some 60898 plug in Mcbs for an old boy foc, do you have to change the bases as well or is it just pull out push in?

Seems simple but I've never swapped them before and I want make sure I have all the bits

 

[littlespark]

Is that the white push button MCBs, or a toggle?
I think the bases came with the breakers when they were new, so I would say you need both.
Are they new, or second hand…. which could mean they are unreliable…

I’m going to state the bleeding obvious though and mention RCD protection on the circuits?

 

[brianmoooore]

Spacing between the pins is different, so matching bases are needed. IIRC, there's a different make (Centaur?) that fits the original Wylex bases.

 

[Rockingit]

I would say that you can't actually (technically) do this any more. The reason being that they won't allow the cover to go back on which inhibits any chance of fire protection.

 

[brianmoooore]

If it's not an early box, cover should have a knockout front that you refit.

 

[LewisM]

Thanks for the info it's for a family friend who can't see to change the fuse wire anymore so will be more convenient for him

https://www.NoLinkingToThis/p/wylex-32a-sp-type-b-mcb/87979

These are the ones

 

[LewisM]

 

[brianmoooore]

They're still being sold, new?? You can see in the pic that the base is different. No shallow shroud around the outside for a start, and, although you can't see it, the pin spacing is different

 

[Mikegh]

Most of those jobs it's simpler and better to change the whole unit

 

[brianmoooore]

The pic. three posts up shows the GE one's that I think will fit the original Wylex bases.
The mixed arrangement in those pics. is NOT acceptable, and , with the MCBs, the cover must be fitted with the front removed.

 

[brianmoooore]

There's also the fact that blowing rewireable fuses should be a 'never' event. Why are they blowing?

 

[Mikegh]

I don't know how old those boxes are but it's likely the whole installation needs an upgrade or rewire

 

[LewisM]

Guys is 82 it only blew once when an old lamp went and he sat in the dark for a few days, I know the board needs changing etc but there's no point the guy hasn't got long left whole house needs an update lol just wanted to make his life easier I'm not charging for it

 

[timhoward]

I get the concept but I'm afraid I think this is flawed. Rewireable fuses are far less likely to need attention in the first place unless something is really wrong (e.g. faulty lamp). A bulb blowing won't pop a rewireable.
So plug in MCB's will probably need the elderly person to visit the consumer unit far more. If eyesight is failing it's paramount that the CU is 100% safe.
Bottom line - if there is no cover available you are leaving behind C2's or worse - you can in fact see live parts in the photograph.
In my view the £40 for four new plug in MCB's would be better off going towards a new board. Even if it's a £65 screwfix special Chint unit. At least he gains RCD protection and zero chance of zapping himself at the board.

 

[LewisM]

Guys is 82 it only blew once when an old lamp went, I know the board needs changing etc but there's no point the guy hasn't got long left whole house needs an update lol

I get the concept but I'm afraid I think this is flawed. Rewireable fuses are far less likely to need attention in the first place unless something is really wrong (e.g. faulty lamp). A bulb blowing won't pop a rewireable.
So plug in MCB's will probably need the elderly person to visit the consumer unit far more. If eyesight is failing it's paramount that the CU is 100% safe.
Bottom line - if there is no cover available you are leaving behind C2's or worse - you can in fact see live parts in the photograph.
In my view the £40 for four new plug in MCB's would be better off going towards a new board. Even if it's a £65 screwfix special Chint unit. At least he gains RCD protection and zero chance of zapping himself at the board.

The plug ins are free as I have some for some reason the Screwfix was just an example

 

[Mikegh]

I get the concept but I'm afraid I think this is flawed. Rewireable fuses are far less likely to need attention in the first place unless something is really wrong (e.g. faulty lamp). A bulb blowing won't pop a rewireable.
So plug in MCB's will probably need the elderly person to visit the consumer unit far more. If eyesight is failing it's paramount that the CU is 100% safe.
Bottom line - if there is no cover available you are leaving behind C2's or worse - you can in fact see live parts in the photograph.
In my view the £40 for four new plug in MCB's would be better off going towards a new board. Even if it's a £65 screwfix special Chint unit. At least he gains RCD protection and zero chance of zapping himself at the board.

Its a flawed concept full stop upgrading accessories and boards on an old installation

Seen it so often where the board is changed and the rcd bypassed or removed

 

[brianmoooore]

If what you have is genuine Wylex, they won't fit without the matching bases

 

[Lucien Nunes]

As mentioned by @brianmoooore the mixture of breakers and rewireables plus the missing cover is a very bad thing. Especially with the metalclad boards. When a rewireable blows, the arc vents through slots top and bottom of the carrier. If the plastic cover is missing, the arc at the bottom on the busbar side can flash over to the metal front and either burn a chunk out of it or potentially blow the bullet.

FWIW I have 16 ways of rewireable in my house. Last one that blew was also a 5A taken out by a faulty 150W lamp without integral fusing. In about 1987.

 

[LewisM]

Hmm I think you are right no point trying to polish a turd, I'll mention a board change

 

[westward10]

The idea of the plastic shield was to prevent molten metal splashing out onto the carpet when a fuse ruptured it was never there to prevent possible access to live parts although that seems to have become it's secondary use. As already mentioned a new mcb should come with the required base and you can still obtain them.

 

[telectrix]

CEF and B&Q sell them about £10+ each with base.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Yes the base is required as the pins are ever so slightly different on the mcbs

used to carry vast amounts of these wylex mcbs as was a quicken cheap way to offer a board upgrade without a board upgrade ?

 

[UNG]

Had a similar situation a number of years ago, my mother in laws house had a small amount of rewiring done back in the 80's but the rest of the house was the original wiring with some extensions / alterations, she was worried about how safe it was but didn't want the mess and upheaval of a rewire so I tested the installation which while some parts were close to the limits it was ok for continued use I then updated the CU using a mix of RCBO's and MCB's & RCD's which much improved the safety for the next 2 - 3 years until she passed away. The house was completely rewired a few years ago and rented out

 

[MrPupsi]

I think people are getting a bit extreme here.

All he wants to do is replace the rewireables to make the old boys life easier.
He’s not going to ok a rewire or RCBO board change at his age, this is the next best thing and leaves the situation no safer than it was before, but ALOT easier for the end user.

Get the correct bases and breakers, and happy days in my opinion.

 

[brianmoooore]

I think people are getting a bit extreme here.

All he wants to do is replace the rewireables to make the old boys life easier.
He’s not going to ok a rewire or RCBO board change at his age, this is the next best thing and leaves the situation no safer than it was before, but ALOT easier for the end user.

Get the correct bases and breakers, and happy days in my opinion.

Fully agree, but the question was will Wylex breakers fit without their correct bases, and unfortunately, the answer is, no, they won't.

 

[Lister1987]

Fully agree, but the question was will Wylex breakers fit without their correct bases, and unfortunately, the answer is, no, they won't.

Well technically they ought to be able to, remove the shroud/shield and it removes the 'keying' so anything should fit anywhere, thr obvious downside is you're likely to create instant C1s and not leaving the installation safer than you found it ?

 

[littlespark]

And my early post regarding buying these things new or sourcing them second hand….. you can’t tell how efficient they will be…. Might never trip under fault.

 

[timhoward]

My main rationale for questioning this is that the breakers are likely to require more human interaction than the existing fuses.

 

[telectrix]

Fully agree, but the question was will Wylex breakers fit without their correct bases, and unfortunately, the answer is, no, they won't.

they will if you have access to aneedle file.

 

[pc1966]

My main rationale for questioning this is that the breakers are likely to require more human interaction than the existing fuses.

My experience is they only trip when something else goes 'bang'.

In the case of stuff on a 13A socket then it is true they don't have the near-total selectivity that the 30A rewirable fuse has hence a major applience fault will take out the plug's 13A fuse and trip the MCB. However, it was almost always the 5A light circuits going when some filament lamp blows, but that seems much less of an issue with LED replacements.

Short of a board change which we all agree is the best solution in a perfect world, I would always change for a set of new/known good plug-in breakers because:

• Most folk struggle to change fuse wire if it does go, and as above that is often in darkness as it was the lights,
• There is a high risk they put in whatever wire is at hand, possible thicker so it "stops blowing"

 

[Mikegh]

The problem with minor upgrades is it tends to prolong the life of the installation

Beyond what it should be

 

[brianmoooore]

they will if you have access to aneedle file.

This would be preferable to leaving the bases off altogether (which would also work, but beyond dangerous). The raised section around the base would also need to be removed to allow the breakers to be pushed fully in.

 

[Lister1987]

4

The problem with minor upgrades is it tends to prolong the life of the installation

Beyond what it should be

5 words that are an Electricians best friend; This install is life expired

 

[pc1966]

The problem with minor upgrades is it tends to prolong the life of the installation

Beyond what it should be

True, but some judgment is also needed.

If this were a rental property or a home folk are just moving in to then it should be brought right up to date with a new board and very likely a rewire as there won't be enough sockets and or them in useful places (as probably installation dates from 70s or earlier) and/or there will be other EICR issues of properly investigated.

However, the OP's situation was how to help out some old codger[*] who has been there for many years but has only a few to go, and very likely lacks the resources or stamina for the disruption of a rewire. In that sort of case the plug-in breakers are a fast way to avoid the risky situation of no lights for days until help is available to rewire a fuse.

* Apologies to any old codgers on here, I'm heading that way myself and at an accelerating pace...

 

[LewisM]

All sorted thanks for you help got new ones from Screwfix in the end

 

[Mikegh]

An instantaneous shower needs an rcd imo

Not sure what bs7671 says on that

 

[LewisM]

An instantaneous shower needs an rcd imo

Not sure what bs7671 says on that

All the comments that have been posted are correct about changing etc and I am a qualified electrician however all I wanted to know was if the bases needed changing the rest is irrelevant.

 

[Mikegh]

All the comments that have been posted are correct about changing etc and I am a qualified electrician however all I wanted to know was if the bases needed changing the rest is irrelevant.

That's no problem

Just saying looking at that board with the instantaneous electric shower on an MCB i wouldn't be happy

 

[ipf]

That's no problem

Just saying looking at that board with the instantaneous electric shower on an MCB i wouldn't be happy

Why not, if it tests well?
Presumably OK when it was installed.... and probably been like that for a decade or two (or three, or more).

 

[Mikegh]

Why not, if it tests well?
Presumably OK when it was installed.... and probably been like that for a decade or two (or three, or more).

Ok well I'm not familiar with bs7671 don't work here ,so can be shot down

How long until the heater tank develops a fault

 

[pc1966]

Ok well I'm not familiar with bs7671 don't work here ,so can be shot down

These days is does, but probably at the time of installation (16th edition) then supplementary bonding was enough for a bathroom installation.

The Best Practice Guide #4 would have C3 for this case (no RCD but bonding good) or C2 if no supplementaty bonding when inspecting things.

How long until the heater tank develops a fault

So long as the CPC is good then ADS is ensured.

Of course, even if the regs did not say so you would still want an RCD for other reasons. Like protecting against the results of cable damage, or to reduce the risk of a double fault being fatal (so #1 loss of CPC and then #2 insulation failure).

 

[brianmoooore]

As I posted in another thread on here recently, the first electric shower I installed had the bare heating wire in direct contact with water flowing through a perspex block. 4mm2 cable, rewireable fuse, and RCDs hadn't been heard of.

 

[ipf]

Ok well I'm not familiar with bs7671 don't work here ,so can be shot down

How long until the heater tank develops a fault

Obviously not talking about all cases but, believe me, there really are much worse things being installed these days than many of the well constructed installations of the period we're talking.
Regulations have tightened and improved, in most cases to good effect. Work standards haven't.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Some older installations are a work of art compared with the lashes in new wiring you see today

some recent stuff I come across looks like it was thrown in by a bunch of trained apes

 

[ipf]

Some older installations are a work of art compared with the lashes in new wiring you see today

some recent stuff I come across looks like it was thrown in by a bunch of trained apes

Trained? ?

 

[littlespark]

I hope the apes you’re talking about aren’t the same apes that show up on members of this forums profiles

 

[telectrix]

I hope the apes you’re talking about aren’t the same apes that show up on members of this forums profiles

 

[Mikegh]

These days is does, but probably at the time of installation (16th edition) then supplementary bonding was enough for a bathroom installation.

The Best Practice Guide #4 would have C3 for this case (no RCD but bonding good) or C2 if no supplementaty bonding when inspecting things.

So long as the CPC is good then ADS is ensured.

Of course, even if the regs did not say so you would still want an RCD for other reasons. Like protecting against the results of cable damage, or to reduce the risk of a double fault being fatal (so #1 loss of CPC and then #2 insulation failure).

The rcd will clear the fault

 

[UNG]

The problem with minor upgrades is it tends to prolong the life of the installation

Beyond what it should be

Not quite sure what point you are trying to make here, this is very cheap minor improvement to make a guy's final years a bit easier when a major upgrade might cause that much stress it would see him off and having an RCD would not stop it happening

An instantaneous shower needs an rcd imo

Not sure what bs7671 says on that

I have to chuckle at the blind faith that people have in RCD's when they are more prone to failure than the MCB

That's no problem

Just saying looking at that board with the instantaneous electric shower on an MCB i wouldn't be happy

I never realised as a child the level of risk I was exposed to when the sockets, the shower and for that matter the whole installation had no RCD's then I started work and for a number years myself and the people I worked with did not routinely install RCD's because they weren't around then. But back then equipment was built to last and we worked with what we had and rarely tested anything other than a Pyro when ELCB's (current type) became available we were taught that they were only for secondary protection these days the quality of some equipment that is installed is debatable so I can only surmise that RCD's are needed as primary protection to cover up for poor installation design and the poor quality kit that is available and also to protect people from their own stupidity or that electrician that doesn't know what he is doing

 

[pc1966]

I never realised as a child the level of risk I was exposed to when the sockets

Many years ago the real driver for RCD use was folk being killed outside when they mowed through a cable or similar while barefoot or in sandals.

I am in favour of RCD, but also don't like the moves to make them mandatory in all cases (2nd amendment proposal) as I know full well there are places like data centres where RCD are unsuitable for reliability/accumulated leakage issues, but that you still want a non-sparky to be able to swap out a UPS or similar in a hurry if it fails.