EICR - Full rewire recommended

[DonStarr]

I've recently has an EICR (report attached) carried out on my two bed flat because I need to rent it out for a year. The electrician has come back saying I need to replace the fuse box to pass the inspection (which I was expecting as no RCD and generally out of date), he has also 'strongly recommended' a full rewire of the flat because of very low insulation readings. The cost of the fusebox and other C2 item is £640 or for the full rewire they have quoted £5400. The wiring is 40 years old.

I've not got the money to be able to do the full rewire at the moment and would need to save up a bit to be able to pay for it. But if I can't rent the flat out then I won't be able to do that. Ideally I would replace the fuse box now and then do the rewire within the next year or two, but I don't want to put potential tenants in danger (They did not say that a full rewire was required to pass the EICR).

My questions are:

• Is it possible to replace the fuse box without doing the rewire immediately, or might this cause new issues to arise? i.e. frequent tripping
• Are the resistance values as bad as they are saying, and is there a real safety hazard there?
• I'm getting a couple more quotes for full rewire but does 5400 sound fair for a 63 square meter flat (floorplan attached)

Thanks in advance

 

[westward10]

They need to issue you the final Report with a valid serial number as it stands it is not valid or are they holding you to ransom until the works are carried out.
Forty year wiring is not old the wiring in my house dates to 1971. Until the reason for the insulation resistance readings are established then it is not possible suggest remedial works.

 

[westward10]

Just seen the pics attached to the report. That switch by your consumer unit is an RCD, can you show a clearer picture. I would suggest they weren't very experienced if they put LIM against the main switch type.

 

[littlespark]

I noticed that too, Westy… but I thought it maybe predates RCDs. Maybe ELCB?

Need a better photo, showing front of that unit

 

[westward10]

That is a Wylex BS4293 RCD and it is either 30 or 100ma.

WYLEX WES 40/2 40 AMP 30mA 2 POLE ELCB RCD CIRCUIT BREAKER.

WYLEX WES 40/2 40 AMP 30mA 2 POLE ELCB RCD CIRCUIT BREAKER.You are buying ELCBSold in full working order.If you have an issue with the item please

circuitbreakersonline.co.uk

 

[Rockingit]

...That's also not a BS60898 consumer unit!! I would say that report is riddled with more holes than a swiss cheese and not worthy of paying for.

 

[neon1991]

That is a Wylex BS4293 RCD and it is either 30 or 100ma.

WYLEX WES 40/2 40 AMP 30mA 2 POLE ELCB RCD CIRCUIT BREAKER.

WYLEX WES 40/2 40 AMP 30mA 2 POLE ELCB RCD CIRCUIT BREAKER.You are buying ELCBSold in full working order.If you have an issue with the item please

circuitbreakersonline.co.uk

it says in the report that it's a 100ma. just dont think he was sure of the BSnumber. The seems a lot for a 2 bed flat!?

@DonStarr The consumer unit is a must as you'd need to have that replaced anyway. Id be inclined to ask them to come back and do a full end to end test with everything unplugged. it may well be that the insulation is breaking down but it would be nice to know... it could be moisture related... who knows. But opting straight for the re-wire option seems a but Nuclear!

 

[Rockingit]

Here's my take..
1. Those are suspiciously low IR readings across three very different circuits - I very much doubt those numbers are correct
2. As per Best Practice Guide 4, there is nothing wrong with a BS3036 rewirable fuse board, however 'old' it may look¹
3. I can't instantly see anything wrong with the mechanics of the water bonding, if it adheres to the adiabatic then it's fine
4. You have RCD protection, albeit slightly old²
5. The C2 code for an outdoor socket cannot therefore apply, as too the C3 for the indoor sockets, which in any case should be the same code
6. This 'report' has all the hallmarks of someone with half a clue looking for work creation

¹ This assumes the unit is mechanically in good order with all relevant original safety features in place
² Needs verifying



I should probably add as a footnote that I'm not saying it couldn't do with some modernisation, just that it doesn't (appear) to have to.

 

[westward10]

it says in the report that it's a 100ma. just dont think he was sure of the BSnumber. The seems a lot for a 2 bed flat!?

@DonStarr The consumer unit is a must as you'd need to have that replaced anyway. Id be inclined to ask them to come back and do a full end to end test with everything unplugged. it may well be that the insulation is breaking down but it would be nice to know... it could be moisture related... who knows. But opting straight for the re-wire option seems a but Nuclear!

You are correct I didn't notice that. Certainly isn't time delayed as noted.

 

[plugsandsparks]

Do we now include plug tops and flexes in a EICR, thought that was for PAT ?

 

[westward10]

Do we now include plug tops and flexes in a EICR, thought that was for PAT ?

No we don't.

 

[buzzlightyear]

I wonder when Peaple come to the site and tell the person that has done the test, hoy your work has been picked apart. Been on a forum.

 

[Vortigern]

£5.5k sounds a bit steep for 3 circuits. Agree with general points above regards due diligence. Effectively you do have RCD protection which seems to have been omitted and not tested. Forty years usually has loads of dirt and fauna in the fittings which may in part account for low readings. The insulation reading do technically meet regulation but it is recommended that 2Mohm at least is the desired level of insulation resistance. so a couple of them are below that level. It suggests the further investigation may be sage to find out why they are so low. I have rewired much much worse than this and the cables have been fine. However there were extremely damp walls and no back boxes on the sockets they were just screwed to the wall and the wall hollowed out a bit to accommodate the socket.
A new box would be a good place to start. Yes tripping may occur. However a bit of investigation should obviate that. I think you could get a better quote. I would be looking at 3-4k for that rewire personally. It might be sage to investigate low IR readings first which I think any decent spark would and remedy that prior to box change to ensure no tripping. Having said that you do have an RCD which is not tripping. I picture of the supply to that RCD would be good. And finally is it an upstairs or downstairs flat?

 

[DefyG]

The good news so far is that as the report is invalid (without a serial number), it cant be declared unsatisfactory!
If as suggested in post #2 that the report is being held as ransom until you've paid, my advice - don't pay the ransom! - Its not worth it #6

 

[DonStarr]

Thank you for all the replies. That has been really helpful. So from what you have all said:

• 40 year old wiring is not in itself a problem
• The problem that needs further investigation is the low insulation values, which could be due to something else.
• Generally there are a lot of mistakes in the report which point to a lack of know how and the fact of not having included the serial number invalidates the report anyway.
• Would be good to get someone else in to take a look, conduct some end to end testing to work out where low resistance values are coming from. Then think about the next steps without jumping to the full rewire immediately.

The flat is a ground floor flat that has had some problems with damp, could this be the potential root of the issues?

 

[Vortigern]

I think it is more that the report is a draft, i.e. not complete. Wouldn't want you to tell the sparks that no serial number means it's invalid as they won't wear that. Being a ground floor flat means that upstairs will have to have floor boards up. Is that viable? £640 for a box change is not too bad. Think I would charge more potentially but I like to use good kit which is more expensive. And of course there is the investigative work. Can you get to the flat above?

 

[Rockingit]

Thank you for all the replies. That has been really helpful. So from what you have all said:

• 40 year old wiring is not in itself a problem
• The problem that needs further investigation is the low insulation values, which could be due to something else.
• Generally there are a lot of mistakes in the report which point to a lack of know how and the fact of not having included the serial number invalidates the report anyway.
• Would be good to get someone else in to take a look, conduct some end to end testing to work out where low resistance values are coming from. Then think about the next steps without jumping to the full rewire immediately.

The flat is a ground floor flat that has had some problems with damp, could this be the potential root of the issues?

I think you’re Bristol?? Viable for me if you do want a second opinion (caveat being that I’ll be sharing back on here!), DM me if you want.

 

[UNG]

Looking at the EICR it is certainly prepared with a lack of care with no proof reading and is possibly just a badly edited copy of the inspectors previous EICR given things like the circuit numbers don't work for a 6 way CU or the picture of it

 

[davesparks]

The flat is a ground floor flat that has had some problems with damp, could this be the potential root of the issues?

Damp is a common cause of low insulation resistance values yes.

 

[DefyG]

The flat is a ground floor flat that has had some problems with damp, could this be the potential root of the issues?

Definitely, although most likely within the accessories. I've often found that once accessories are disconnected the cabling IR is fine.
Sometimes the boxes need replacing too where badly corroded but ideally damp proofing first!