PIR codes

[IQ Electrical]

Code 1?

Immediate danger, live exposed parts, no main earth etc etc.

There is so much guidance available on codings, like the ESC guide compiled by a who's who of the electrical industry, it will be worth you reading it.

http://www.esc.org.uk/fileadmin/user_upload/documents/industry/best_practice/BPG4_08.pdf

 

[mogga]

if 50mm depth is a code 1 where would it all stop?? someone MIGHT spur off a ring main with bell wire so a 32A mcb would be over rated so lets code 1 incase they do that??
if your doing PIRs there are some situations everyone has comeacross where you scratch your head but majority are in GN3 OSG and other publications like the ESC one IQ has linked to

 

[arcbrightmike]

Yes I see were you are coming from. I will have a good read, and revise the PIRs. So if there was nothing wrong with the property other than that, would a code 4 that make it satisfactory? In one of them there is a halogeon spotlight fitting in the bathroom, half of it hanging over the bath. Code 2? No means of isolation for cooker other than the MCB at the consumer unit Code 2? Kitchen Light fitting un earthed Code 1?

 

[IQ Electrical]

Current guidelines say 'unsatisfactory' assessment for a report with code 1 or code 2 defects.

I have to say that I'm amazed that you're asking this especially as you say that you're carrying out PIR's and I'm also amazed that you've never stumbled upon the guidance?

 

[arcbrightmike]

I have, I have downloaded all of the best practice guides its just I didnt think to consult them when carrying out these. I was just thinking about it too much. Thanks for your help and putting me back on the right track.

 

[IQ Electrical]

I have, I have downloaded all of the best practice guides its just I didnt think to consult them when carrying out these. I was just thinking about it too much. Thanks for your help and putting me back on the right track.

No problem, they're good guides and always give you something to point to if you ever need a bit of back-up.

 

[brucelee]

Current guidelines say 'unsatisfactory' assessment for a report with code 1 or code 2 defects.

I have to say that I'm amazed that you're asking this especially as you say that you're carrying out PIR's and I'm also amazed that you've never stumbled upon the guidance?

Hi IQ
great advice as usual

so if code 1 immediatley isolate and requires urgent attention with a unsatisfactory on the report would you include a danger notification with the pir
code 2 requires improvement but does not need isolating
when recommending interval for next pir if the pir you carried out was having the obsevations and recommendations corrected then is it down to the inspector to decide next interval would you give a shorter interval for the next inspection and test to see if the necessarry works had been completed
then if its been carried out give a new pir with a increased interval or is ai all down to the inspectors
discretion

 

[IQ Electrical]

The interval between inspections is always subject to rectification of all code 1 and code 2 defects and it also depends on the age, type of use, quality of maintenance of the installation etc.

When you think about it, as the inspector, you are saying 'this installation is satisfactory for continued service' and by specifying the next inspection date, you are sticking your neck out somewhat!

It would have to be an immaculate, fairly new domestic installation for me to go anywhere near the recommended interval of 10 years!

It's a similar deal on commercial for a full 5-year interval.

 

[brucelee]

cheersmate but if you are just carrying out the pir, you may not get the remedial works so you would leave them a pir with a code 2 and limit the interval to 3 months and recommend they get it rectified as soon as possible

 

[IQ Electrical]

cheersmate but if you are just carrying out the pir, you may not get the remedial works so you would leave them a pir with a code 2 and limit the interval to 3 months and recommend they get it rectified as soon as possible

The recommended interval until the next inspection should be made conditional upon all the Code 1 and Code 2 departures being rectified without undue delay.

You can put that on your report or in a covering letter to the person ordering the work.

Stickers should still be applied to DB's with the your chosen 'next inspection due' date.

 

[brucelee]

yes this is what i was referring to Iq

conditional upon them being rectified so if not rectified then the report and interval not valid if not rectified
cheers Iq you have a wealth of knowledge you just jogged my memory last june exam was a while ago lol
just got used to these regs and somebody is changing them lol

 

[IQ Electrical]

It's never ending!

 

[brucelee]

cheers mate I know where to come for inspection and testing problems

 

[baldelectrician]

I use easycert and overprint my unsatisfactory certs with the word 'unsatisfactory'

It's not the first time someone has tried to tippex out the 'un' from unsatisfactory and hand it in

This way they can't do it easily. It also galvanises the mind of the landlord when you hand the tenant a copy (after giving the landlord time to respond)

 

[demkap]

hi guys was wondering what code you would give a consumer unit with no rcd protection??? code 1 0r 4???
demetri

 

[Sintra]

It really depends on what version of 7671 it was installed to.

 

[demkap]

explain more so if they had 60898 fuses?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There is no requirement for Consumer Units to be protected by an RCD, so no code at all.
You should note and code each instance where RCD protection is required, but is not present
For instance:
for circuits of a location containing a bath or shower,
for socket-outlets intended for general use by ordinary persons,
for socket-outlets used for mobile equipment outdoors,
and for cables concealed in walls at a depth less than 50mm.
Most would warrent a code 4 or 2, depending upon how dangerous you consider the lack of RCD protection to be, and to which edition the installation, and any additions or alterations were conducted to.

 

[Sintra]

explain more so if they had 60898 fuses?

60898 is the BS number for MCB's not fuses.

 

[IQ Electrical]

hi guys was wondering what code you would give a consumer unit with no rcd protection??? code 1 0r 4???
demetri

Hi Demetri,

Have you carried out many periodic inspections?

Your questions worry me slightly, talking of 'consumer units without RCD protection' , '60898 fuses' and then deliberating between a code 1 and a code 4 to allocate to a defect?

Maybe your questions are academic and you're doing the 2391-10?

 

[tc50]

Many thanks for your codes list ,very helpful.is there a book i can buy to assist further on this matter.cheers tc

 

[nickblake]

TC50 guidance note 3 also have a look at the little book by the ESC Best practice guides : Electrical Safety Council the one you want is the best practice guide 4 which gives you the new coding for PIR's

 

[darking]

One small point to add, its not satisfactory to have one or two RCD's to BS 61008 protecting more than one circuit. each circuit, as described in previous post by spinlondon, should be protected by an RCBO to BS 61009

 

[nickblake]

One small point to add, its not satisfactory to have one or two RCD's to BS 61008 protecting more than one circuit. each circuit, as described in previous post by spinlondon, should be protected by an RCBO to BS 61009

So what BS number are the RCD's in a dual RCD consumer unit think you'll find they are BSEN61008 , an RCBO is a combination of MCB and RCD where the 61008 is just an RCD so as long as the out going circuits are protected by an MCB then you can have as many circuits as required , if you install an RCBO in a consumer unit with a 61008 both at 30ma then you will end up with no discrimination for the RCD/RCBO's

 

[D80]

One small point to add, its not satisfactory to have one or two RCD's to BS 61008 protecting more than one circuit. each circuit, as described in previous post by spinlondon, should be protected by an RCBO to BS 61009

Why not?

 

[darking]

The failure of one circuit, say a cooker with an earth fault, will trip the RCD, causing the loss of any other circuit also protected by that RCD This is in conflict with 314.1 and 314.2. i hope that will explain "Why not?"

 

[trev]

So split load boards with two RCDs are non-compliant since the RCDs cover more than one circuit?

 

[nickblake]

Noo you are mis under standing that reg when you design an installation you design it to reduce any incovieniance if an RCD trips for instance you would install the upstairs lighting on the same RCD protected circuits and the down staires sockets ,for circuits that are likly to trip an RCD ie garage shed hot tub you would install on independant circuits protected by RCBO's or and MCB depending on what the circuits is suppling , thats why we have 17 edition consumer units some hi integrety where you can use RCBO,s and RCD protected MCB's idealy you would install all circuits on RCBO's i grant you that but you can protect more than 1 circuit with a 61008

 

[trev]

Sorry mate I wasn't sure what you were driving at.

 

[darking]

Nickblake there is no such thing as a 17th edition consumer unit, its how you configure the board that will determine whether or not your installation complies. i will agree with you that not every circuit needs RCD protection.

If you look at the list supplied earlier you will see where RCBO's are indicated. any other circuit must be individually assessed. the garage shed that you mentioned, being outside the equipotential zone is a case in point and needs RCD protection

For cascaded RCD's the upstream RCD could be a time delayed or Type S with an ordinary RCD after that. in the case of your shed the TDR could supply the cable to the shed (to protect the cable) and an RCBO to protect the tub circuit etc. this will provide discrimination between the two RCD devices and give the best protection.