The use of plastic wall plugs for the 18th....

[Spoon]

I was just reading an interesting post about the 18th when the above was mentioned. there seems some debate about this. I initially thought that the idea of prohibiting the use of them was stupid, but I'm not sure now.

http://www.swaonline.co.uk/files/ww/Install Protect _ ComplyFull Document.pdf

These walldog screws look like they could strip the hole easily in some cases.

 

[Wilko]

Sorry, but you forgot the new arc effen device, so that's £750

 

[Spoon]

So plastic plugs no, but plastic trunking, conduit, fast fit boxes, etc etc etc are all ok, someone is having a good old ****ing laugh at us all, and all we do is bend over further and let the scam providers shaft us,maybe we should go back to the 4 inch nail bent over cables like in the good old days

Plastic trunking will only melt in a fire. Same as other plastic products. Cables within the plastic trunking, if fitted to the ceiling for example, will fall out of the trunking. The copper in the wire will not melt at the temps they are talking about, where firefighters will be in the building, so these copper wires may cause "entanglement". Therefore you have to secure the wires and prevent them from dropping.

 

[the pict]

So as lo g as the fixing stays up everything else can dangle and sag, fooking crap and I can't believe some of you are buying into this "We are the borg prepare to be assimilated" for trays, baskets, metal trunk use metal expanding anchors simple

 

[DPG]

So as lo g as the fixing stays up everything else can dangle and sag, fooking crap and I can't believe some of you are buying into this "We are the borg prepare to be assimilated" for trays, baskets, metal trunk use metal expanding anchors simple

Over reacting slightly ?

 

[123]

I'm mainly domestic and small commercial works now. I don't see how this affects me at all?

If I do a shed, garage etc, the cables fall down the wall, no chance they will be in anyones way. Showers and smokies going from ground floor to attic it's a bit of MT2 stuck to the wall, without it the cable isn't in a danger to anyone it'll just hang there.

 

[Oldschool]

Do any of you old geezers out there remember ALEX plugs in the 70's. They were an aluminium rawlplug an always gave you a solid fixing - much better than the plastic ones. Perhaps they are the solution to this problem.

 

[Ian1981]

I'm mainly domestic and small commercial works now. I don't see how this affects me at all?

If I do a shed, garage etc, the cables fall down the wall, no chance they will be in anyones way. Showers and smokies going from ground floor to attic it's a bit of MT2 stuck to the wall, without it the cable isn't in a danger to anyone it'll just hang there.

The new regulation doesn’t make any exceptions be it a single cable incased in trunking on a wall or for bundles of cables fixed high level to a ceiling,it simply states ALL wiring in the installation shall be secured against premature collapse so it will affect all installations.

 

[123]

The new regulation doesn’t make any exceptions be it a single cable incased in trunking on a wall or for bundles of cables fixed high level to a ceiling,it simply states ALL wiring in the installation shall be secured against premature collapse so it will affect all installations in all locations of installation.

That's not what I meant. I should have made it clearer.
If I use surface trunking in a house it's either along a skirting, in the hot press, or from floor to ceiling to go between floors. The commercial stuff in my area isn't much different, and anything bigger I doubt I'd be using PVC conduit or trunking.

 

[Oldschool]

More on ally plugs - they still make them. Seems they are about 4 times the price of plastic. See more here : UCAN | Products - http://www.ucanfast.com/products/details.php?category=Mechanical+Anchors&c=6&subcategory=+Light+Duty+Anchors&sc=181&productid=112

 

[Strima]

As usual we will comply as we know and abide by the regulations. However other trades won’t so Dave the data bloke or Steve the Sky engineer won’t give a ---- and still just chuck it them in...

 

[Marvo]

I can see these making a comeback, they should be rated to 327.5 °C

 

[ipf]

As usual we will comply as we know and abide by the regulations. However other trades won’t so Dave the data bloke or Steve the Sky engineer won’t give a **** and still just chuck it them in...

...and then there are the diy Dick's and cowboy **** pretenders in our own trade.

 

[Rpa07]

I can see these making a comeback, they should be rated to 327.5 °C

View attachment 43292

That’s a lead lug on that which would melt over the kettle put on to make the tea! Nice fixing though, used to use them for BT cables.

 

[EalingBadger]

Just out of curiosity, donother trades such as ceiling fittiers, air con installers have to comply too as they both install things that are liable to fall down should the fixing fail in a fire?

Surely the point is that falling wiring does not merely impede one's progress in the same way as other falling stuff (such as suspended ceilings) but also has the interesting additional potential ('scuse pun) to administer a seriously painful and possibly life threatening jolt at the same time?

 

[snowhead]

Do any of you old geezers out there remember ALEX plugs in the 70's. They were an aluminium rawlplug an always gave you a solid fixing - much better than the plastic ones. Perhaps they are the solution to this problem.

Yes I remember those, make that 60's and 70's.
When I started it was with the then GPO, (Electrical) they wouldn't allow anything else, certainly not those new fangled plastic things.

I can also remember using the Rawlplug fibre compound that you used to dampen and push into larger / oversized holes then screw into it. Used that at home before I started work and had access to Alex plugs.
I'm sure that must have had asbestos in it.
Just Googled , yes it was white asbestos, lovely I used to chew that to get it wet.

 

[netblindpaul]

Chewing asbestos is quite safe, it only causes damage when finres are inhaled.

 

[snowhead]

Chewing asbestos is quite safe, it only causes damage when finres are inhaled.

You tell the kids that nowadays, they won't have it..

 

[Pete999]

More on ally plugs - they still make them. Seems they are about 4 times the price of plastic. See more here : UCAN | Products - http://www.ucanfast.com/products/details.php?category=Mechanical+Anchors&c=6&subcategory=+Light+Duty+Anchors&sc=181&productid=112

Ally melts don't it?

 

[Pete999]

More on ally plugs - they still make them. Seems they are about 4 times the price of plastic. See more here : UCAN | Products - http://www.ucanfast.com/products/details.php?category=Mechanical+Anchors&c=6&subcategory=+Light+Duty+Anchors&sc=181&productid=112

Ally melts don't it?

 

[telectrix]

at about 660 C.

 

[Richard Burns]

Ally melts don't it?

at about 660 C.

Cant use aluminium then as it might be a fire 2 and the firefighters will be walking around in a 690°C temperature and may get molten aluminium dripped on them as well as being entangled in cables.

 

[snowhead]

Cant use aluminium then as it might be a fire 2 and the firefighters will be walking around in a 690°C temperature and may get molten aluminium dripped on them as well as being entangled in cables.

Now you're being Silly.
They won't be walking around in that temperature, they'll be running..

 

[Dillb]

Now you're being Silly.
They won't be walking around in that temperature, they'll be running..

Why will they be running? To keep warm!

 

[Selfmade]

I'm wondering about another couple of scenarios that don't seem to have been covered here:

- Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?

- Cables fixed to exposed wood (e.g. skirting board, exposed ceiling timbers, or in a garden shed). Everyone seems to assume all walls are made of solid concrete which is actually rather rare in domestic settings. I have used metal clips fixed to wood and believe the wood would take longer to burn than a plastic, but I don't know how much longer or how the regs would apply to this.

 

[sham]

I forgot is it a code 2 or 3 if you doing an conditional report and there are no metal fire rated clips supporting the cables.

 

[sham]

I'm wondering about another couple of scenarios that don't seem to have been covered here:

- Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?

- Cables fixed to exposed wood (e.g. skirting board, exposed ceiling timbers, or in a garden shed). Everyone seems to assume all walls are made of solid concrete which is actually rather rare in domestic settings. I have used metal clips fixed to wood and believe the wood would take longer to burn than a plastic, but I don't know how much longer or how the regs would apply to this.

This is why we have amendments, so they can make new book for more money. Blue, green, red, yellow etc. lol.

 

[Spoon]

Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?

I'd go with Yes, as I presume that firefighters would have to search every room, in case of a fire.
"Sorry about the body in the basement, but as it was a maintenance area I thought there would be no one there, so we didn't search it." would not go down well..

 

[Midwest]

I'm wondering about another couple of scenarios that don't seem to have been covered here:

- Cables in loft or basements that are only entered for building maintenance - are these spaces included in 'metal fixings must be used everywhere'?

- Cables fixed to exposed wood (e.g. skirting board, exposed ceiling timbers, or in a garden shed). Everyone seems to assume all walls are made of solid concrete which is actually rather rare in domestic settings. I have used metal clips fixed to wood and believe the wood would take longer to burn than a plastic, but I don't know how much longer or how the regs would apply to this.

If the cables can't fall down because their failed, how can someone (or a fireman) become entrapped in them, thereby falling (forgive the pun) into the interpretation of said definition?

Like, hows a cable clipped to a skirting, gonna entrap a fireman?

 

[sparksburnout]

What about when the AMD3 board is screwed to a couple of wooden battens then? Do the battens have to have fireproof fixings?

 

[telectrix]

simple solution.... issue all firefighters with a pair of these: