distribution board

[Sonia Norman]

Hi

I was wondering if anybody has come across black stub slv? My mums church consumer unit is a nightmare. All of the connections are black stub slv, with half on them not marked as live. Thats ok for the ones that were already connected in the board. But in the board were some wires just connected loose in connector blocks! None of the circuits have an earth either. The main earth bond is there, i have just never come across a board that does not have a seperate earth with each circuit.

 

[shanky887614]

Pyro is not for the uninitiated or the faint of heart Sonia. That said, you have an opportunity to gain a very worthwhile skill that will never leave you. You'll get rusty at it but it's like riding a bike, you never forget it.
Once you get used to it you'll learn to love the stuff. I, and most of the other dinosaurs on here, do. Watch, learn and soak it up. And see if you can get your hands on some scrap ends to practice on (NB the tools needed can be expensive)

the tools can be picked up for a reasonable price on ebay

the brands to look for with reguards to tooling are;
pyrotenax
bicc

joistripper is handy for the smaller stuff but a rotary stripper is needed for the bigger stuff (or snips and driver)

dont be tempted to snip itit either as you will struggle to screw the pot on

 

[shanky887614]

^^Bet you knew what it was though?^^

yes, i was shown it at college and bought the tools and got some cable, 2l1 pots and glands online
(thanks to a kind member on here for the cable)

 

[ruston]

yes, i was shown it at college and bought the tools and got some cable, 2l1 pots and glands online
(thanks to a kind member on here for the cable)

Good for you.:smile5::smile5:

 

[davesparks]

just to add for future readers, it is not worth the trouble moving some boards, your better ripping the guts out and using them as a joint box.

hopefully the micc is terminated into couplers first or trunking and not direct into the board or you will find it tricky.


the odd micc would be fine if your inexperienced but it can be a right pig for a lot of cables, damage one and you will have to shorten them all to get them in the board

What utter rollocks!
If you can't do the job without turning the old board into a joint box then walk away and let someone who will do the job properly do it.

And damaging one doesn't necessarily require the whole lot to be re-terminated, there could be any number of ways of getting over that.

 

[shanky887614]

What utter rollocks!
If you can't do the job without turning the old board into a joint box then walk away and let someone who will do the job properly do it.

And damaging one doesn't necessarily require the whole lot to be re-terminated, there could be any number of ways of getting over that.

i said some not all and im not just counting small db's here im including panels as well, we have had panels with 20+ micc (bare copper no shroud either) directly into the top of the panel all in a tight formation down a wall.

 

[davesparks]

Oh my golly gosh, 20+ bare pyro's! Whaddaya want, a medal or something?

Take the gland plate from the old board and use it as a template for the new one. Then when you're finished give the cables a quick clean and polish and they'll look as good as new.

There are places out there with far more than 20 Pyro's installed into boards. If I get a chance soon I get some pictures of some theatre installs where there are at least 96 circuits wired in the stuff coming out of patch panels.

 

[shanky887614]

Oh my golly gosh, 20+ bare pyro's! Whaddaya want, a medal or something?

Take the gland plate from the old board and use it as a template for the new one. Then when you're finished give the cables a quick clean and polish and they'll look as good as new.

There are places out there with far more than 20 Pyro's installed into boards. If I get a chance soon I get some pictures of some theatre installs where there are at least 96 circuits wired in the stuff coming out of patch panels.

i said+ i didnt count and not all panels have glandplates either

 

[davesparks]

So cut the top bit off with the holes in it and use that as the template

My point is that it doesn't matter how many there are in there, the job should be done properly and not bodged with turning old DBs into unnecessary joint boxes.

 

[Dcf]

i said some not all and im not just counting small db's here im including panels as well, we have had panels with 20+ micc (bare copper no shroud either) directly into the top of the panel all in a tight formation down a wall.

The op is talking about a rewirable board in a church hall it probably an eight way or such like.
even your panel with 20micc cables should be (or was) standard work for an electrician in my book.
an experienced hand should manage this task no bother as it's not a fusion reactor we are talking about

 

[davesparks]

What's next? SWA becoming a specialist job with common electricians advised to leave it where it is and just extend it to a new board rather than remove the old one?

 

[Darkwood]

The problem the OP will need to get a well seasoned person in who has plenty of experience with both MICC and old installs, the MICC is very durable and can be expected to last a century even with a few bashes but the issue is is how good the pots were made off originally, disturbing rested pots can cause all manor of issues and its even worse in old listed buildings as its likely to be imperial - I've had to rescue many a failed attempt at upgrading DB's with MICC's as part of the install and I heard they are introducing it back in in teaching... it disappeared with from colleges with the introduction of FP cables and as part of the dumming down to ensure high pass rates for political gain but thats another thread altogether.

Most of the new generation of 'Electricians'! no longer have the skill set that were essential and a requirement only 2 decades ago... hence it is so diluted now you can be called one after 5 weeks!

 

[Engineer54]

I hope this other electrician has a decent experience of MICC, especially if any of the terminations needs re-terminating for any reason, as the chances are that from your description these will be the older imperial sized MICC cables....

EDIT....Must of had the same thoughts at the same time as darkwood!! lol!

 

[Knobhead]

I wonder what insurance Sonia has.

Churches are bloody expensive to rebuild after a fire.

 

[Pete999]

Hope you are going to use a metal DB.

 

[Guest77]

Quite possibly as this I havent worked on this yet. And plesd dont all start shouting. I have another electrician coming in to help I just want to have some info before hand.

Why?? he or she will know what to do

 

[Pete999]

To early for the popcorn isn't it?

 

[shanky887614]

 

[Knobhead]

It is a bit early and I’ve just taken my morning medication so popcorn wont sit well on top of them.

Sonia, take a bit of advice, walk away.
It’s clear you haven’t a clue what you’re doing and if it goes wrong………… It may be a church, god won’t help you if insurance gets involved.

 

[Tidy Max]

So cut the top bit off with the holes in it and use that as the template

My point is that it doesn't matter how many there are in there, the job should be done properly and not bodged with turning old DBs into unnecessary joint boxes.

Is it really that bad to extend the circuits? I appreciate if there wasn't space then a direct swap would be necessary but given the additional work and not to mention the problems that could be created from moving the old micc. Installing a JB and extending the circuits to a new DB seems like quite a logical solution.

Forgetting the dumbing down of the trade etc what is so bad about extending the cables?

 

[shanky887614]

Is it really that bad to extend the circuits? I appreciate if there wasn't space then a direct swap would be necessary but given the additional work and not to mention the problems that could be created from moving the old micc. Installing a JB and extending the circuits to a new DB seems like quite a logical solution.

Forgetting the dumbing down of the trade etc what is so bad about extending the cables?

davespark is stuck up his own arse is the problem, he seems to be forgetting the fact a modern board will probably be bigger as well so might need a new location.

nothing wrong with joints in any circuits according to the regs as long as there maintenance free or accessible so why would a jb not be allowed?

 

[Jonspark]

Is it really that bad to extend the circuits? I appreciate if there wasn't space then a direct swap would be necessary but given the additional work and not to mention the problems that could be created from moving the old micc. Installing a JB and extending the circuits to a new DB seems like quite a logical solution.

Forgetting the dumbing down of the trade etc what is so bad about extending the cables?

Wash your mouth out young man, how dare you, don't you know that all professional electricians on here must keep up with the notion that there are the worlds best and anything like that would be a disgrace!!!

 

[shanky887614]

Wash your mouth out young man, how dare you, don't you know that all professional electricians on here must keep up with the notion that they are the worlds best and anything like that would be a disgrace!!!

corrected that for you

 

[Pete999]

Using the existing enclosure as a junction box, is not such a bad idea if you think about it logically. Not sure how many bare MICCs there are, but, think about the problems when dealing with old existing MICCs, the problems that could arise from trying to move them about into a new DB, doesn't bare thinking about, it's not ideal I grant you, but probably the best idea, I have done it this way on many occasions, done properly it doesn't look to bad, that's my take anyway, like it or lump it.

 

[UNG]

Is it really that bad to extend the circuits? I appreciate if there wasn't space then a direct swap would be necessary but given the additional work and not to mention the problems that could be created from moving the old micc. Installing a JB and extending the circuits to a new DB seems like quite a logical solution.

Forgetting the dumbing down of the trade etc what is so bad about extending the cables?

So you would create additional work making up a JB rather than a minor rework of the pyro to suit the newboard

davespark is stuck up his own arse is the problem, he seems to be forgetting the fact a modern board will probably be bigger as well so might need a new location.

nothing wrong with joints in any circuits according to the regs as long as there maintenance free or accessible so why would a jb not be allowed?

May be it is you that are up the darkside up to 15 - 20 years ago this was a bread and butter job and only slightly more complicated than swapping a domestic CU to those with MICC experience, adding jb's or converting enclosures to jb's is just creating unnecessary clutter

Yes pyro can become work hardened but it doesn't mean it cannot be reworked into a new board if needed if the old board has a removable gland plate I would possibly be tempted to make this fit the new board to save some aggro but if it doesn't as previous posters have said it is not that difficult to drill the new board to suit


I think this is a bit of an ambitious job for the OP as a first job and even with the assistance of an experienced spark it won't give you instant competence on MICC work as there are quite a few different termination methods that have been used over the years and you still find the aluminium variants very occasionally

 

[Jonspark]

corrected that for you

Damn, another personal failure to add to the list

 

[Jonspark]

Using the existing enclosure as a junction box, is not such a bad idea if you think about it logically. Not sure how many bare MICCs there are, but, think about the problems when dealing with old existing MICCs, the problems that could arise from trying to move them about into a new DB, doesn't bare thinking about, it's not ideal I grant you, but probably the best idea, I have done it this way on many occasions, done properly it doesn't look to bad, that's my take anyway, like it or lump it.

Aaaahhhhh! stop it stop it stop it.