DOMESTIC INSTALLER BARE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT

[seza]

Hi and happy new year to all,

Apologies if this has been asked before,

I have been around electrics all my life in a DIY capacity, learnt from competent electricians over the years,
Now I hope to gain the required qualification, my question to you is simply ...
What are the bare minimum steps I need to take to achieve that quickly and cheaply?

Many thanks.

 

[martinwinlow]

Nothing 'high horse' about it. The OP stated he wanted the cheapest and quickest way in.

Actually, no he didn't. What he *did* state was "I have been around electrics all my life in a DIY capacity, learnt from competent electricians over the years,
Now I hope to gain the required qualification, my question to you is simply ...
What are the bare minimum steps I need to take to achieve that quickly and cheaply?"

So, nothing about doing work for the general public - maybe he just wants to do a bit of advanced DIY or a straight-forward self-build? Maybe, he lives somewhere where getting a qualified electrician to even arrive is difficult and very expensive (like where *I* live - an island off the west coast of Scotland that's 2.5 hours away from anywhere significant on a ferry that doesn't arrive on the 3 days a week it's supposed to if the weather is the least bit dodgy!) and so, not unreasonably, wants to be able to do electrical work himself, legally!

Have you even considered the possibility that he may have engineering qualifications that far outclass yours in terms of ability and technical theory and/or more experience in electrics than 90% of the 'qualified' electricians out there?

Anyway, judging by some of the work I have seen done by so-called 'experts', being a 'properly qualified' electrician isn't that much to shout about... now confirmed by the sensible, mature responses to the OP's original question.

 

[GMES]

This week I've replaced a ceiling light fitting, a socket and a light switch and no cert was issued and none will be issued.

Surely you did a Mwc
What happens if something goes wrong and you end up in court, I don't think the judge will just take your word for it that you tested it before you left, they will want proof , which would be a certificate.

 

[Pete999]

Surely you did a Mwc
What happens if something goes wrong and you end up in court, I don't think the judge will just take your word for it that you tested it before you left, they will want proof , which would be a certificate.

Absolutely.

 

[Pete999]

Absolutely.

Nothing like covering one's behind is there?

 

[DPG]

Actually, no he didn't. What he *did* state was "I have been around electrics all my life in a DIY capacity, learnt from competent electricians over the years,
Now I hope to gain the required qualification, my question to you is simply ...
What are the bare minimum steps I need to take to achieve that quickly and cheaply?"

So, nothing about doing work for the general public - maybe he just wants to do a bit of advanced DIY or a straight-forward self-build? Maybe, he lives somewhere where getting a qualified electrician to even arrive is difficult and very expensive (like where *I* live - an island off the west coast of Scotland that's 2.5 hours away from anywhere significant on a ferry that doesn't arrive on the 3 days a week it's supposed to if the weather is the least bit dodgy!) and so, not unreasonably, wants to be able to do electrical work himself, legally!

Have you even considered the possibility that he may have engineering qualifications that far outclass yours in terms of ability and technical theory and/or more experience in electrics than 90% of the 'qualified' electricians out there?

Anyway, judging by some of the work I have seen done by so-called 'experts', being a 'properly qualified' electrician isn't that much to shout about... now confirmed by the sensible, mature responses to the OP's original question.

So, yes, get off your high-horses and wind your bally necks in whilst you are at it!

You might be right. I still don't get a good feeling from that original post though!

 

[GMES]

That's all it's about Pete, I'm not suggesting the job wasn't done correctly but if anything did go wrong at later date he's covered with a certificate full of test results.

 

[Pete999]

That's all it's about Pete, I'm not suggesting the job wasn't done correctly but if anything did go wrong at later date he's covered with a certificate full of test results.

No neither was I, but like you say a MNW cert is the right move, that way you are covered for any mishaps, should they occur. It seems a logical progression, I mean what does completing a MNW cert cost you? nothing in reality, just foolish not to imo.

 

[peterhyper]

There is no requirement to issue a MWC for replacing a plastic light switch, so how on earth would I end up in court?

Hard to believe as it might seem but an electrical certificate doesn't prove something has been done properly/safely.

I have lost count of how many times I have come across certificated work that is a waste of paper. I recently came across a cert issued for a consumer unit change and there was no cpc in either light circuit, not possible that a cpc existed when the circuits were tested because it was the old twin cable with no cpc. The spark replaced the consumer unit and did the testing of the 3 bed house in a morning according to the house owner (this isn't isolated). No way could I replace the C/u and do a proper test of 8 circuits in morning.

Again I've lost count of how often I come across work such as c/u replacements, new circuits and additions to circuits that is badly done with no certs.

The likelyhood of me ending up in court for replacing a plastic light switch and not issuing a MWC is zero.

 

[GMES]

There is no requirement to issue a MWC for replacing a plastic light switch, so how on earth would I end up in court?

Hard to believe as it might seem but an electrical certificate doesn't prove something has been done properly/safely.

I have lost count of how many times I have come across certificated work that is a waste of paper. I recently came across a cert issued for a consumer unit change and there was no cpc in either light circuit, not possible that a cpc existed when the circuits were tested because it was the old twin cable with no cpc. The spark replaced the consumer unit and did the testing of the 3 bed house in a morning according to the house owner (this isn't isolated). No way could I replace the C/u and do a proper test of 8 circuits in morning.

Again I've lost count of how often I come across work such as c/u replacements, new circuits and additions to circuits that is badly done with no certs.

The likelyhood of me ending up in court for replacing a plastic light switch and not issuing a MWC is zero.

Firstly I did stipulate you've done nothing wrong
2nd I didn't say you were going to end up in court
3rd
I thought it was a socket and light fitting as well as the switch.
All I am saying is for the cost of a Mwc and the minute or two to type it up it would be a no brainer for me.
I totally agree that some people fabricate certificates, I presume you don't though so it would be a genuine certificate wouldn't it.
I'm just pointing out that it would have been as easy to create a cert as Not.

 

[Ian1981]

When I did the maintenance side of things for contracts in social housing we used a basic copy of the model form of the minor works certificate.
On it was an extent of the work covered ie replacement of an accessory and an agreed limitation that a zs test was taken at only the replacement accessory and a comments section where you’d basically state any non compliance’s such as no rcd protection to sockets as an example.
A column for any rcd tests where applicable and circuit details , adequacy of bonding etc.
The limitation was already recorded on the certificate as standard.
I say a certificate, basically it was just for proof of appropriate inspection and testing as a way of compliance and covering ones behind.

 

[peterhyper]

GMES, You did say if I end up in court the judge wouldn't take my word for it without a MWC.

I did say I didn't issue a MWC cert for replacing a light fitting or socket as well as a light switch, and there are other items I regularly replace 'like for like' that I don't issue MWCs for and I won't ever do so unless it becomes a requirement. I do a loop test and RCD test and the results are on their invoice, so I am more than happy with that (that's probably more than most sparks do).

A house owner can legally replace switches, light fittings and sockets without any experience, qualifications or being registered, and as far as I know they don't have to issue themselves a MWC.

 

[DPG]

GMES, You did say if I end up in court the judge wouldn't take my word for it without a MWC.

I did say I didn't issue a MWC cert for replacing a light fitting or socket as well as a light switch, and there are other items I regularly replace 'like for like' that I don't issue MWCs for and I won't ever do so unless it becomes a requirement. I do a loop test and RCD test and the results are on their invoice, so I am more than happy with that (that's probably more than most sparks do).

A house owner can legally replace switches, light fittings and sockets without any experience, qualifications or being registered, and as far as I know they don't have to issue themselves a MWC.

As has been said, it's optional. Up to you.

 

[Toneyz]

requirement. I do a loop test and RCD test and the results are on their invoice, so I am more than happy with that

Why did you not say this originally? I was about to post this earlier that a lot of people doing these maintenance jobs record basic information on a job sheet. It seems that you were needle people by refraining information 1st you added plastic accessories 2nd say about testing then you conclude by you including some sort of formal test results.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

How long should copies of certification be kept by installers?
How long are we required to keep copies of invoices?

 

[peterhyper]

Why did you not say this originally? I was about to post this earlier that a lot of people doing these maintenance jobs record basic information on a job sheet. It seems that you were needle people by refraining information 1st you added plastic accessories 2nd say about testing then you conclude by you including some sort of formal test results.

Perhaps you need to read back because the actual point was regarding issuing certificates for all work even non noticeable jobs. I didn't refrain from providing any information (I made it very clear I don't issue certificates for work that doesn't require one). Apologies if that caused you to get the needle. Maybe you should get the needle with the thousands of people doing dangerous electrical work rather than worrying if I conducted electrical tests when replacing a plastic light switch.

 

[Toneyz]

Perhaps you need to read back because the actual point was regarding issuing certificates for all work even non noticeable jobs. I didn't refrain from providing any information (I made it very clear I don't issue certificates for work that doesn't require one). Apologies if that caused you to get the needle. Maybe you should get the needle with the thousands of people doing dangerous electrical work rather than worrying if I conducted electrical tests when replacing a plastic light switch.

It seemed as you were losing the argument you were adding facts in and gave a different impression if you had said that you didn't do a minor works cert but you did basic testing and recorded on the invoice or worksheet I would have been hitting the winner button.

 

[chris50450]

Using the words 'bare minimum, quickly and cheaply' do not inspire much confidence.

A bit like seeing"British Standard" on material does nowadays.

 

[peterhyper]

It seemed as you were losing the argument you were adding facts in and gave a different impression if you had said that you didn't do a minor works cert but you did basic testing and recorded on the invoice or worksheet I would have been hitting the winner button.

I've lost the argument, and you are the winner so many congratulations.

 

[DPG]

I think the other thread about Carol Kirkwood is going better than this one.

 

[Prytaneion]

Hi and happy new year to all,

Apologies if this has been asked before,

I have been around electrics all my life in a DIY capacity, learnt from competent electricians over the years,
Now I hope to gain the required qualification, my question to you is simply ...
What are the bare minimum steps I need to take to achieve that quickly and cheaply?

Many thanks.

Good for you Bruv. Go for it. Don't take any notice of wallies on here who deride you for having a go. Every one of them started somewhere. Try looking up a technical college near you. They will be able to help and give you advice on which path is best for you.

 

[MFS Electrical]

I'm not sure what you mean that 'all work needs certifying'' because that isn't the case (I don't certify all work I do).

Anything that involves altering a circuit physically or altering its design needs to be certified. So not all the work you do needs a cert but you probably do a couple of quick tests when you get to a job to for example change over a socket. So pretty much every job required to some degree inspection and testing

 

[jselectrix]

Don’t forget to spend a couple of minutes reading up on the Health and Safety Act, and the criminal offence of Corporate Manslaughter should a customer be electrocuted by quick, easy installations.

 

[peterhyper]

Don’t forget to spend a couple of minutes reading up on the Health and Safety Act, and the criminal offence of Corporate Manslaughter should a customer be electrocuted by quick, easy installations.

Perhaps you need to understand the basics of corporate manslaughter:

An individual cannot be guilty of committing, aiding, abetting, counselling or procuring the commission of the offence of corporate manslaughter.

 

[DPG]

Goasis - why the bad spelling rating on my post?

 

[peterhyper]

Goasis - why the bad spelling rating on my post?

It's more poor grammar than bad spelling (don't think there's an icon for poor grammar).