UK Gas Cooker conked and electrical cooker replacement

[advicewelcom]

Hi, quick posting - welcome any advice as new to this stuff...

Have a Howden HJA 0150 gas grill/oven with a broken thermostat that and can't get a replacement (grill igniting but no gas coming out of oven burners when on).

The Howden grill/oven is on a ring in the kitchen which has following appliances on it:
-microwave
-fridge freezer
-kettle
-toaster
-a Howden gas hob
-the busted Howden grill/oven
-couple of kitchen sockets generally not used

It all goes back to a RCD with a fuse that says - MTN132 b32 hanger fuse

There is an electrical wall connection for the grill/oven, with (I think) a 6mm wire for the ring (and not the thicker 10mm wires used for showers).


I may want to replace with just an electrical gill/oven. So some questions...

-Is there is max kilowatt oven that I could just wire into the current wall socket (which is used for the current grill/oven electrical ignition connection)?

-Would I need to replace the fuse in the RCD for the main? And is so with what?

-Would these things ensure the fuse would not trip if the oven was switched on?

-There are lots of electrical ovens but the instructions say they should be wired directly to the fuse box, so wondering if there is one which can just run from this ring main (if I upgrade the fuse)?


Would hate to buy an electrical oven and then its a nightmare and expense to fit it (the fuse box is currently full).

Welcome advice.

(attached pic of gas connection, and wall sockets for hob and grill/oven)

 

[James]

By the sounds of it they had to turn the gas off to repair something to do with the meter or the supply to it.

they will not be able to turn the gas to the property back on if there is a leak, unfortunately you are going to need the services of a gas safe registered plumber to find and repair the fault(s) within your house.

 

[advicewelcom]

By the sounds of it they had to turn the gas off to repair something to do with the meter or the supply to it.

Yes, correct, in fact they used some balloon thing to stop the gas coming out before the shut out valve, so they could replace the shut of valve with a new one.

they will not be able to turn the gas to the property back on if there is a leak, unfortunately you are going to need the services of a gas safe registered plumber to find and repair the fault(s) within your house.

Apparently suppliers (British Gas) etc accept small leaks as long as there is no smell of gas (I think 8millibars depending on the meter in the house) - Cadent have permittable levels of a small gas leaks (as long as there is no smell of gas) as well, but in this instance they seem to have ignored their own operation procedures and just capped off all the gas to the house.

At the beginning the engineer kept blaming me by saying I reported a "smell of gas" which I did not (it was the fairy liquid around the shut of valve that alerted to the minor leak around the shut of valve) not any smell - and they could have listened to the call in to verify that. The shut of valve is high up in the garage and its so well ventilated it would have been impossible to smell any minor gas around that area in anycase.

I think its got something to do with them passing the buck to someone else to re-open the gas so they can escape any blame. Was a horrible thing to do at that time. Is there some recourse to this action if its not in line with their operating protocols?

 

[James]

I think a chat with a good independent gas fitter would be the best place to start.
they are going to be in a far better position to advise than a bunch of electricians.

 

[advicewelcom]

I think a chat with a good independent gas fitter would be the best place to start.
they are going to be in a far better position to advise than a bunch of electricians.

Got the gas turned back already by calling out an independent gas engineer (he was shocked by what they did as well).

Just was curious if anyone in this forum knew about the dark arts of Cadent. There was massive consequences to them cutting gas off on Christmas eve when there are elderly and vulnerable people in the house that could not stay at other people's houses due to Covid risks - and have no heating, no hob, no hot water. Terrible thing for them to do and think I should pursue it - so it does not happen to anyone else.

 

[Deleted account]

I know Gas suppliers have more powers than The police in gaining entry to turn off gas in an emergency. So they can turn off your gas if it’s not deemed safe.

the supplier was correct not to turn on the gas until such time as the installationnwas deemed safe. They have a duty of care.

We electricians do not hav3 the power to turn off anyone’s electrics even if we think it’s dangerous.
However if we turn the power off to do some testing or a job and find the installation is unsafe, we cannot turn the power back on until such time as it is made safe.

so7nds like the same thing really, but it’s not.

 

[DPG]

Got the gas turned back already by calling out an independent gas engineer (he was shocked by what they did as well).

Just was curious if anyone in this forum knew about the dark arts of Cadent. There was massive consequences to them cutting gas off on Christmas eve when there are elderly and vulnerable people in the house that could not stay at other people's houses due to Covid risks - and have no heating, no hob, no hot water. Terrible thing for them to do and think I should pursue it - so it does not happen to anyone else.

Difficult to say without knowing the full story, but imagine the headlines if they switched the supply back on when there was a leak, and something went wrong.

 

[Deleted account]

Terrible thing for them to do and think I should pursue it - so it does not happen to anyone else.

It would have been a terrible thing to put you and the household at risk. Pursuing this would be a waste of time as the engineers will be backed up all the way on this one.

He was protecting you and did what was in the best interests of anyone within the house.

 

[westward10]

Difficult to say without knowing the full story, but imagine the headlines if they switched the supply back on when there was a leak, and something went wrong.

Like poor electrical connections

 

[advicewelcom]

"Safe" is ambiguous, so there is an Operating manual which was ignored.

 

[nicebutdim]

"Safe" is ambiguous, so there is an Operating manual which was ignored.

I'm not sure there's much mileage in arguing this point on a forum for electricians.

 

[westward10]

I'm intrigued, you were adamant that due to your situation it was not possible to have an electrician on site however you have had gas fitters on the premises.

 

[timhoward]

I've watched this getting longer and longer and finally this morning slightly in disbelief about how a cooker change would need 11 pages I skim read it. As far as I can tell:

"Can I fit this cooker myself"
"Probably not, no"
"I'm going to do it anyway."
"You need an electrician"
"No I don't". "But please help as it's got complicated"
"How dare a gas-safe man try and save my life"

This should win a prize for the most unsuitable username.

 

[DPG]

Yes, definitely an odd thread.

 

[advicewelcom]

I've watched this getting longer and longer and finally this morning slightly in disbelief about how a cooker change would need 11 pages I skim read it.

Don't understand how there are documented tolerances in operating manuals indicating acceptable gas drops (which happen in houses) and yet it is then left to the discretion of individuals to cut of critical supply when its within those tolerances, which has severe impacts and greater risks to occupants..

Am glad I changed to electrical. The days of gas will be over soon - too much hassle.

 

[timhoward]

Don't understand how there are documented tolerances in operating manuals indicating acceptable gas drops (which happen in houses) and yet it is then left to the discretion of individuals to cut of critical supply when its within those tolerances, which has severe impacts and greater risks to occupants..

I know it's highly unlikely, but is there any chance you upset the gas man, somehow?

 

[advicewelcom]

Even though the cadent operation manual allows minor drops (with no smell of gas) there is a hypocritical philosophy of "not on my gas card" by the engineers. As long as some other independent gas engineer switches on the gas - its all okay. The driver is personal job protection - not household welfare - irrespective of the disruption.

Anyways, am grateful for the advise about the oven electrics from the group, I don't think I would have got the same level of independent advise or analysis rigour that was provided here.

 

[advicewelcom]

Hey all, its Kalamity Ken here again.

Guess what? The oven blew the fuse in its FCU, in the FCU on the kitchen ring and tripped out the RCD



Returning after a couple of days away discovered the RCD and Kitchen circuit switch had tripped.

Could flick the Kitchen circuit back on and the RCD. Microwave, fridge, kettle, etc, sockets back up okay. But no Hob and Oven


== Switched FCU to Hob & Oven === Kettle & Toaster Socket === Microwave Socket == Fridge etc...
. ║
. ║┉> Hob Switched FCU ┉>Hob
. ║
. ║┉> Oven Switched FCU ┉>New Oven


Replaced the 13A fuse in the "Switched FCU to Hob and Oven" - and Hob was back up but not oven.

Replaced the 13A fuse in the "Oven Switched FCU", switched on. and Bang(!) circuit down again.

Can I assume a wiring short in Oven Switched FCU, or Oven connection or something dodge in Oven?

 

[westward10]

Which part of "get an electrician" multiple times in previous posts did you not understand.

 

[DPG]

I give up.

But not before 25 characters.

 

[westward10]

This thread is now closed.