UK Gas Cooker conked and electrical cooker replacement

[DPG]

This really does need an electrician getting in.

 

[advicewelcom]

This really does need an electrician getting in.

Try getting one, and then try dealing with the risks with virus in the household. I think I will have get elecy if it keeps tripping out. But will try the below first...


GENERAL TEST APPROACH
-Do wiring again and careful of N & E shorts
-Check the RCD
-If tripping lift Boiler FCU Neutral to boiler and see if can reset RCD

If still have tripping issues:
-Check whats going off and how in fuseboard
-Take photo of fuseboard circuit
-Do some MM testing with fuseboard



... seem ok?

 

[marconi]

OK - V's between Boiler FCU Earth to double socket Earth

The fact that you measure a voltage albeit small between the earth conductor of the boiler fcu and the earth conductor of the double socket on the right indicates a break in continuity of an earth conductor (more correctly circuit protective conductor cpc). This fault could be on the ring or on the radial to fcu or both. If the cpc between the fcu and the consumer unit and the cpcs of the ring back to the cu where complete and connected correctly then no voltage can exist between the boiler and double socket cpcs because they are effectively joined together. This state of affairs can cause an rcd to trip.

Time to call in a sparks with the right test equipment.

You can forget about taking the lid off the cu.

 

[advicewelcom]

OK - V's between Boiler FCU Earth to double socket Earth

The fact that you measure a voltage albeit small between the earth conductor of the boiler fcu and the earth conductor of the double socket on the right indicates a break in continuity of an earth conductor (more correctly circuit protective conductor cpc). This fault could be on the ring or on the radial to fcu or both. If the cpc between the fcu and the consumer unit and the cpcs of the ring back to the cu where complete and connected correctly then no voltage can exist between the boiler and double socket cpcs because they are effectively joined together. This state of affairs can cause an rcd to trip.

Haven't measured anything yet, assume this Earth to Earth V measurement test is to be done before any wiring changes to the Boiler radial and Kitchen Ring (seperate circuits) - and should come back with a 0v if there is no break in continuity.

 

[Avo Mk8]

Just have to clarify this (PANIC STATIONS).

You are saying to connect from the Boiler FCU supply input to the TWIN SOCKET?

Think you're saying don't connect from the FCU output going to the boiler.

Attached a diagram of potential new wiring - is this correct? - wire from the Twin socket into the Boiler FCU Live, Neutral & Earth Supply connections??

And terminal block connect the incoming 32A ring supply to the HOB FCU??

Yes. The 20A circuit is a 'radial', and you can feed multiple accessories (within reason) by daisy-chaining them. It's not the same as a ring.
So you connect the twin socket to the 2.5mm cable going into the boiler fcu, not the fused output of the fcu.
Live coming into fcu goes to live of twin socket, etc.

And then that fcu is left feeding the boiler exactly as it was before, same fuse, unchanged wiring on the output.

 

[brianmoooore]

Do we know if the boiler spur circuit is RCD protected?

 

[advicewelcom]

Do we know if the boiler spur circuit is RCD protected?

Yes, RCD off and no supply goes to boiler.

 

[DPG]

Yes, RCD off and no supply goes to boiler.

Are the circuits in question protected by an RCD though?

 

[advicewelcom]

If you have a bit of spare 3 core wiring in which the earth does not have a sleeve, is that okay to use to connect the twin socket to the boiler FCU?

 

[westward10]

As already stated whilst forum is happy to help the DIYer it has to draw the line at step by step guidance. This task is way out of your comfort zone and the pic in #51 demonstrates this because the back box with the block connectors floating about in it is no longer earthed. Because you have interfered with the existing wiring you now have an rcd tripping with no idea as to why so I suggest you reinstate what you have altered and call an electrician.

 

[advicewelcom]

As already stated whilst forum is happy to help the DIYer it has to draw the line at step by step guidance. This task is way out of your comfort zone and the pic in #51 demonstrates this because the back box with the block connectors floating about in it is no longer earthed. Because you have interfered with the existing wiring you now have an rcd tripping with no idea as to why so I suggest you reinstate what you have altered and call an electrician.

Needs must, there is a pandemic on and not allowed to bring others in, moreover its turkey time soon.

Not sure your analysis is on the mark as rewired it with a bit of 3core and RCD was fine. I suspect the Neutral and Earth were touched in first attempt (which I understand trips RCD).

(PIC ATTACHED) It don't look pretty, I assume I need a bit of neutral sleeving, perhaps wrap the terminal block up in insulation tape, and feed the connecting wire through the back box hole instead?

Just hoping its connected okay and experts on this group are happy with it - as have an oven to order. So very happy and thankful if its gets a thumbs up with any changes needed?

 

[westward10]

That box is not earthed. It would be unwise to advise you further you need an electrician covid or not to assess your situation.

 

[advicewelcom]

That box is not earthed. It would be unwise to advise you further you need an electrician covid or not to assess your situation.

Dying of Covid is nothing we can do about on this forum, dying from electrical shock is ;-) Good suggestion, I can fit a fly lead but looks like its been discussed quite a bit and seems not required by the regs as earthing happens through the lug for recessed back boxes (@ 2:22). Looks more applicable for surface mounted boxes.

 

[telectrix]

Dying of Covid is nothing we can do about on this forum, dying from electrical shock is ;-) Good suggestion, I can fit a fly lead but looks like its been discussed quite a bit and seems not required by the regs as earthing happens through the lug for recessed back boxes (@ 2:22). Looks more applicable for surface mounted boxes.

earthing back boxes was made optional around 2005 under the 16th.however, most of us prefer to earth them for the simple reson that if the faceplate is removed for any reason, you lose the earth through the faceplate oins so the back box could become live if a fault developed.

 

[westward10]

earthing back boxes was made optional around 2005 under the 16th.however, most of us prefer to earth them for the simple reson that if the faceplate is removed for any reason, you lose the earth through the faceplate oins so the back box could become live if a fault developed.

It looks like it is going to be blanked hence it needs an earth. Many electrcians to the exact same thing.

 

[nicebutdim]

Dying of Covid is nothing we can do about on this forum, dying from electrical shock is ;-) Good suggestion, I can fit a fly lead but looks like its been discussed quite a bit and seems not required by the regs as earthing happens through the lug for recessed back boxes (@ 2:22). Looks more applicable for surface mounted boxes.

Remember that old adage about 'a little knowledge'.

 

[Deleted account]

Surely this needs an electrician in. It's very close to step-by-step instructions on reconfiguring a circuit.

I think the above post needs seeing again.

 

[advicewelcom]

Thanks for past advice. Washing machine ordered for tomorrow (does not come with a wire) and assume there is calculation for a 2.3KW oven to determine the wiring requirement (2.5mm T&E would do the job I assume for 10A)?

Also those darn screws are not going into the backbox lugs easily and holding the front socket in, not sure if this is another newbie question - but if the back box is a bit warped is the suggestion to re-tap the lug thread or use something to fix it (removing the backbox would be a headache).

 

[brianmoooore]

Most domestic sparkies carry a 3.5mm thread cleaning/reforming tool in their toolbox.

 

[advicewelcom]

Most domestic sparkies carry a 3.5mm thread cleaning/reforming tool in their toolbox.

Ta - figured as much.

Almost there, just a query about lead installation from oven to wall FCU...
-2300W / 230v = 10Amps current expected through the electric oven lead at max.
-Understand that 2.5mm T&E does 24Amps circa (but not sure about unburied).
-Fuse in FCU would need to be 13Amps

If I have some spare 2.5mm T&E - this going to be okay for unburied oven lead to FCU?

Should I go for 4mm if unburied?

(BEKO manuals are flippin' useless and googlin is ambiguous).