Multiple circuits in one enclosure

[kingeri]

So I am at a job right now to fit downlights in a bathroom (I tried to talk her out of it), and have easy access via loft above. Isolated upstairs lighting circuit. Wiring in loft is very neat, there is a Line enclosure present, all cables neatly clipped. However, on inspection I have found that inside the Line enclosure there are three different circuits, lighting, ring final and smokes. I wouldn't dream of doing this.....would you??

 

[telectrix]

put the RFC in a separate enclosure. ditto with the smokes if they're not on the lighting circuit.

 

[RISElectrical]

Nothing wrong with it.... What happens when you move a DB and mount an enclosure full of DIN rail connectors. I think the most circuits I have had in an enclosure is 30 odd.

 

[Des 56]

Nothing wrong with it.... What happens when you move a DB and mount an enclosure full of DIN rail connectors. I think the most circuits I have had in an enclosure is 30 odd.

This was going to be my post,but I read yours before hitting the button :sailor:

How often on here do we read that a consumer unit is to be changed which will require extended circuits,the solution presented is an adaptable box to extend the various circuits enclosed in that junction box

 

[telectrix]

but in kingeri's case, where this is in an attic, he isolates the lighting to work on that circuit and then to be safe, he needs to isolate other circuits as well. i think they need separating, even if not against regs.

 

[PC Electrics]

Nothing "wrong" with this as such. But you should label it as requiring more than one point of isolation before opening. Put a label on the CU too.

I've seen something similar in a bungalow where the Cu had been moved out the kitchen to the hall and all the circuits needed extending. The standard of workmanship was very poor in that case.

 

[Thomas123]

A consumer unit is an enclosure and that has multiple circuits? I don't see a problem, if it was on different phases though I would use a 400v sticker on enclosure cover.

 

[telectrix]

there' s a bit of difference here. when you open a CU, you expect multiple circuits. when you open a line enclosure in an attic, you don't.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Must have been some size line enclosure that .........................

 

[RISElectrical]

Maybe it was a 6"x6" enclosure?

 

[malcolmsanford]

I was thinking line connector as in Line connectors ...our forum sponsor, never used them but are they capable of taking RFC. Light circuits and FA in one fittings?

 

[Thomas123]

there' s a bit of difference here. when you open a CU, you expect multiple circuits. when you open a line enclosure in an attic, you don't.

Not really, you shouldn't assume because it's enclosure that it has one circuit either. What about switches? Quite often they have multiple circuits..

 

[telectrix]

but then you would not expect a RFC circuit to be in back of a light switch, would you?

 

[Strima]

I wouldn't really call it best practice to lump a lot of circuits into one JB if there's no need, bet it looks like a right birds nest in there. Not difficult to use three separate enclosures and mark them up accordingly.

 

[telectrix]

my thoughts exactly. line enclosures are only a quid or so apiece, so it's a no brainer.

 

[kingeri]

Thanks for the input guys. It was a Line enclosure (as in our forum sponsors). Didn't mention that the the RFC and lighting were connected in terminal blocks, and the smokes cable literally and pointlessly just passed through the enclosure! It really is bad practice in my view to have more than one circuit in a junction box/enclosure, especially when it is completely unnecessary. As Tel said, there is no comparison between such as a junction box and a CU....the CU would be totally isolated before removing the cover anyway. A JB could easily still have live parts inside even if you thought you had isolated the correct circuits. Just seems like adding an extra danger for no reason. As for labeling the JB and CU....why not just do the job right in the first place! Just my view. :bucktooth:

 

[telectrix]

if you translate the red bit of my signature, it's appropriate.

 

[kingeri]

if you translate the red bit of my signature, it's appropriate.

It sure is

 

[somersetsparks]

Thanks for the input guys. It was a Line enclosure (as in our forum sponsors). Didn't mention that the the RFC and lighting were connected in terminal blocks, and the smokes cable literally and pointlessly just passed through the enclosure! It really is bad practice in my view to have more than one circuit in a junction box/enclosure, especially when it is completely unnecessary. As Tel said, there is no comparison between such as a junction box and a CU....the CU would be totally isolated before removing the cover anyway. A JB could easily still have live parts inside even if you thought you had isolated the correct circuits. Just seems like adding an extra danger for no reason. As for labeling the JB and CU....why not just do the job right in the first place! Just my view. :bucktooth:

Not saying that I would ever do it by choice, but as long as it had a '2 or m ore circuits present label' is it really that wrong?
wrong?

 

[telectrix]

in an attic, seeing by a £3 LED head torch, itchy poo up your nose, and you'll see a label that in 10pt type. i trhink not.

 

[somersetsparks]

in an attic, seeing by a £3 LED head torch, itchy poo up your nose, and you'll see a label that in 10pt type. i trhink not.

Well i usually pay attention to most bright yellow labels with exclamation marks on!
I say usually as I have been had by a grid switch before!

 

[shocking_eg]

even if there are multiple circuits, never presume its off before testing it fully. if you test it and find its still live no problem just isolate the other circuit.

bit obvious theres multiple circuits if theres 1.5 and 2.5mm mixed.

stupid labeling, just covering our arses for the DIY'ers out there LOL

common sense is all that is needed

 

[kingeri]

Each to his own. I only asked who would do it. And stated I wouldn't.

 

[Darkwood]

I do interlinked control systems, multi-circuit SWA cables etc and is all perfectly acceptable as long as certain criteria is met and in OP case it fine as others have mentioned that the joint has appropriate labling warning of multiple circuits, anyone gaining access will need to follow correct isolation and testing measures before altering or working on the joint, failure to do so cant be blamed on the fact it has an uncommon situation for a domestic install, whether previous bodgit or sparky has labled it or not if isolation and test procedures are followed to work on the joint then it will not be a safety issue. Those who get complacent or assume will learn a big lesson - if not on the job in hand then a future job.
When ever i alter, extend or rip out others work i always assume they were incompetent and always tread carefully; id most likely be dead now if i didn't judging by my finds over the years.

 

[daiplayer]

when opening any enclosure follwing isolation , you should be proving for dead before working anyway . So safety shouldn be a problem if you follow safe working practices . :wink_smile:

I cant see a problem with multiple circuits in an enclosure. providing they are identified inside the enclosure for any further works being done. and if you cant suss out what it what : you shouldnt be working on it ....simple as :bucktooth:

edit : not diggn at poster , obviously you know what is what as you spotted it . i mean others who may not :bucktooth:

 

[Thomas123]

but then you would not expect a RFC circuit to be in back of a light switch, would you?

Actually I have seen that on a eicr, 25mm conduit running down the wall into a double back box, with a switch, the the ring runs through the double back box (they didn't think about when the back box needs changing) into another piece of conduit down to a socket.

 

[RISElectrical]

Conduit systems are common in domestic and also a perfect example of multipul circuits in an enclosure. at some point in the system, usually in the loft there will be boxes with multipul circuits jointed in them and also usually in connectors as its accessable and perfect fine as per regs