Quick Question Please ?

[ELIMINATOR GUY]

Hi Guys, just a quick question....

My mum lives in a council house and just had a new kitchen fitted, the workmen have installed 3 new single sockets, but I want to double check the minimum high for new sockets as these have been added on to the original circuit (ring main)

They have placed them about 100mm above the floor (to bottom of socket), the skirting is only about 80mm tall (so its very small) then they have used so No1 Truncking on the wall just above the skirting then the sockets are on top of that.

I was under the impression from the 17th ed book (which I have lent to someone) that new sockets should be 450mm from the floor, I questioned their workmen and they said they can put them were they want as the 450mm is only a "guideline"

Can anyone just clear this up for me please ?

What is the minimum reg for hight from the floor for new sockets ?

Thanks

 

[Octopus]

The problem with the OSG is that its really aimed at new installs.

The height of accessories in older builds is down to the discression of the installer but should be "in keeping" with the existing accessories

 

[funkymonkeytwo]

As Murdoch's answered, new sockets on old installs can go at any height keeping with the original accessories

 

[malcolmsanford]

When you get your regs book back have a look at 553.1.5 regarding socket outlet heights and you will see the sparks are right.

Part M of the building regs concerning socket heights would not be enforced in this situation

 

[Des 56]

The minimum height is 450 mm to the bottom of the box
With a rewired property,the accessories can be mounted at existing heights,but if they are lower than the recommended,they are not to make that non compliance worse

eg They can't go lower than existing, or in the case of light switches,they can't go higher than the existing

 

[shagbite]

mate, you should be thanking your spark for using a bit of common. i'd rather have my sockets at 4" than 18" any day of the week.

 

[ELIMINATOR GUY]

Thanks Guys, the thing is, in the kitchen there were only sockets above the worktops, so the new ones are much much lower level then them. so they are not in keeping with the original height.
They also left one with a screw missing and one with a cracked face, all parts were second hand. Just goes to show what a crap job this guy has done, I had to get him out last week as the cooker socket was also loose and on an angle.

I think I will wait they they have gone then do a periodical on the property.

So bit confusion there as the new ones are lower than anything else in the house, sound like they should not have them that low to me.

 

[malcolmsanford]

0.4 Under regulation 3, theexpression 'material alteration' is definedby reference to a list of 'relevant requirements' in Schedule 1. Thatlist includes Part M. This means that an alteration of a dwelling is a material alteration if the work would result inthe dwelling not complying with Part M where previously it did. Alternatively,if the dwelling did not previously comply with Part M, the dwelling should notbe more unsatisfactory in relation to Part M after the material alteration. Itis irrelevant whether or not the dwelling wassubject to Part M at the time of its construction. Under the generalLimits on Application of Part M, the requirementsof that Part do not apply to an extension of or a material alteration ofa dwelling. This means that the extension or alteration work itself need notcomply with Part M. However, a planned alteration to a dwelling that has thepotential to reduce the compliance of the dwelling as a whole with Part M mustbe carried out in such a way that there is noreduction in the extent of Part Mcompliance. Similarly, an extension of a dwelling need not itself complywith Part M, but it must not result in the dwelling being less compliant withPart M. The following examples illustrate these points.

Taken from the Part M document and as you can see it is as clear as mud

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Yes the socket heights in Part M are really only a guideline, and then really just for new builds.
The main criteria of Part M, is for the heights to be the same throughout the property, even then that is just another guidline.
The overiding consideration, should bve what the end user desires/requires.

As such, the workmen should have placed the sockets at either the same height as the others in the property, or at a height chosen by your Mum.
I would advise you discuss the matter with your Mum, and then if she wants them at a different height, get in touch with the workmen to have the sockets moved.
Don't wait untill the work is finished, otherwise you will have a very hard time getting the workmen back in.

 

[telectrix]

mate, you should be thanking your spark for using a bit of common. i'd rather have my sockets at 4" than 18" any day of the week.

sockets at 4"?????? you're avin a laff. with my back plugging my zimmer frame charger in would be a nightmare.

 

[ELIMINATOR GUY]

Just spoken to them and they refuse to move them to the correct position. bloody cowboy council workers.

 

[Octopus]

Thanks Guys, the thing is, in the kitchen there were only sockets above the worktops, so the new ones are much much lower level then them. so they are not in keeping with the original height.
They also left one with a screw missing and one with a cracked face, all parts were second hand. Just goes to show what a crap job this guy has done, I had to get him out last week as the cooker socket was also loose and on an angle.

I think I will wait they they have gone then do a periodical on the property.

So bit confusion there as the new ones are lower than anything else in the house, sound like they should not have them that low to me.

Who paid for the job? your mum or the council?

 

[ELIMINATOR GUY]

The housing, and it was there inspector who phoned the contractor, and the contractor told him "it's just a guidline so it's fine as it is" so the inspector said "Good, leave it as it is then"

 

[ELIMINATOR GUY]

I am not going to bother with it now, as my mum only has a washing machine, fridge and freezer plugged into them, so she will never need to bend down to use the sockets anyway.
I just said to them, that if the water pipe that he has put one of the sockets directly under ever bursts and causes a problem with the electrics, then the landlords insurance will not pay for damage as the sockets were fitted incorectly.

 

[shagbite]

Thanks Guys, the thing is, in the kitchen there were only sockets above the worktops, so the new ones are much much lower level then them. so they are not in keeping with the original height.
They also left one with a screw missing and one with a cracked face, all parts were second hand. Just goes to show what a crap job this guy has done, I had to get him out last week as the cooker socket was also loose and on an angle.

I think I will wait they they have gone then do a periodical on the property.

So bit confusion there as the new ones are lower than anything else in the house, sound like they should not have them that low to me.

sorry you've had a bad experience mate, sounds like you've had the cowboys in. the work in the kitchen would be notifiable - were you given any documentation upon completion? personally, i usually ask the customer where he wants his sockets and at what height, after all, he's the one who has to live there.

 

[ELIMINATOR GUY]

They are just cowboys, I always fit my sockets to 450mm (bottom) in any case and my customers have never complained, I just wanted to double check with you guys on the regs today, until I get me book back lol

 

[ezzzekiel]

as the property does not belong to your mum then unfortunately the contractors do not answer to you, providing council inspector is happy then they will stay as they are.

 

[ian.settle1]

sockets at 4"?????? you're avin a laff. with my back plugging my zimmer frame charger in would be a nightmare.

Get the wife to plug the charger in then:rofl: