Earth and bonding cable checks-any tools available?

[Plonker 3]

that beats my "width underwater" swimming certificate.

I thought you would have had the one where you do that in your pyjamas.

 

[Tof99]

What do they learn on this course?

Who has decided they need to ensure bonding is the correct size and in place?

Diilb, their training is very comprehensive, but limited too.
We were challanged by NICEIC on not checking reg 132.16, my argument was we are not altering the installation, just connecting to it (after checking load etc) But NICEIC want us to just confirm presence of earthing conductors and main earthing conductors and confirm sizing is correct.

 

[Silly Sausage]

City and Guilds 2359 Level 2 qualification in Installing Consumer Electrical Equipment, full CCN1 and CKR1 Gas safe quals and internal training covering off electrical testing.

2359 is Servicing Equipment. No Electrical Installation training/quals then?
http://cdn.cityandguilds.com/Produc...ments/2359_L2_3_Qualification_handbook_v1.pdf

The guys are competent in their field, but are not electricians.

What, plugging things in :smilielol5:

 

[Andy78]

Diilb, their training is very comprehensive, but limited too.
We were challanged by NICEIC on not checking reg 132.16, my argument was we are not altering the installation, just connecting to it (after checking load etc) But NICEIC want us to just confirm presence of earthing conductors and main earthing conductors and confirm sizing is correct.

Then you have three choices:

• Train your staff properly to do their job in line with the requests
• Perform on site pre-job assessments yourself or by similarly trained individual in line with requests
• Tell the NICEIC that your work does not fall within the remit of their requests and to go forth and pester someone else.

 

[Tof99]

2359 is Servicing Equipment. No Electrical Installation training/quals then?
http://cdn.cityandguilds.com/Produc...ments/2359_L2_3_Qualification_handbook_v1.pdf





What, plugging things in :smilielol5:

Archy: The electrical training is done outside of that C&G exam, partly withing the Gas safe and then a 3 day internal course (approved by awarding bodies)

 

[Pete999]

Diilb, their training is very comprehensive, but limited too.
We were challanged by NICEIC on not checking reg 132.16, my argument was we are not altering the installation, just connecting to it (after checking load etc) But NICEIC want us to just confirm presence of earthing conductors and main earthing conductors and confirm sizing is correct.

Are you, or is your company part of a Competent Persons Scheme (NICEIC being one of them)

 

[Tof99]

Are you, or is your company part of a Competent Persons Scheme (NICEIC being one of them)

It's a large company, but we have some sites that are under NICEIC Limited scope (Level B, minor works) but the majority aren't.

 

[Pete999]

It's a large company, but we have some sites that are under NICEIC Limited scope (Level B, minor works) but the majority aren't.

Then what business is it of NICEIC to tell you what to do?

 

[Tof99]

Then what business is it of NICEIC to tell you what to do?

Fair comment Pete!

It's because in the longer term we are looking at full scope for the whole business, so we need to be seen to be doing things correctly.

IMO, I don't feel we need to be doing any more than just a visual check that the incoming services are bonded, after all we are just installing appliances and do perform an EFLI test which will prove there is a 'decent' earth path. But their Area Engineer suggested we should be doing full 132.16 checks.

 

[telectrix]

I thought you would have had the one where you do that in your pyjamas.

got that as well. fetching a brick from the bottom.

 

[Pete999]

Fair comment Pete!

It's because in the longer term we are looking at full scope for the whole business, so we need to be seen to be doing things correctly.

IMO, I don't feel we need to be doing any more than just a visual check that the incoming services are bonded, after all we are just installing appliances and do perform an EFLI test which will prove there is a 'decent' earth path. But their Area Engineer suggested we should be doing full 132.16 checks.

You don't have to be registered to NICEIC there are other equally as bad

 

[trev]

Cooker installer my arse, another so called trade who will soon, no doubt, be adopting the "engineer" title to justify their existence.
Glorified Argos monkeys imo.

 

[Pete999]

Cooker installer my arse, another so called trade who will soon, no doubt, be adopting the "engineer" title to justify their existence.
Glorified Argos monkeys imo.

Hi Trev how you doin? back saying like it is I'm pleased to say

 

[Deleted member 72666]

Archy: The electrical training is done outside of that C&G exam, partly withing the Gas safe and then a 3 day internal course (approved by awarding bodies)

Now that makes a Electrical Trainee look like they've completed a full apprenticeship!

 

[davesparks]

Not really the response I was looking for! I thought this forum was to help each other? (see forum's statement below)

(Please be reminded that if your reply can't help the original poster, it may be seen as pointless and taking the thread off topic. Please make sure what you are about to post is in-keeping with the forum rules, specifically the "be nice" rule. Just be nice and helpful (even to new members) or don't reply at all please. Also note that we urge all members, regular or new, to report any posts that are off-topic, pointless or offensive)

Just to re-clarify:

I have a team of cooker installers who need to confirm earth & bonding sizes, I have the skills to do so, but I am in an office, I cannot expect a cooker installer to know how to, hence the question.

First you need to teach them how to calculate the correct size of earthing conductor required, and then the correct size of bonding conductor required. You also need to teach them how to identify and test each of the different earthing systems. And of course how to test whether or not a metal pipe requires bonding or not.
They will also need calibrated loop impedance testers to test the Ze, as it would be pointless confirming the size of the earthing conductor is the supplied earth connection is not up to scratch.

 

[Geordie Spark]

imagine been at school and telling the careers teacher you want to become a cooker installer:dunce2:

I used to tell my teachers that I wanted to be an Engine Driver. :laugh:

 

[Geordie Spark]

Anyone know the C&Gs number for Cooker installing? Electric of course, for Gas you would need a gas safe cert Shirley

Yep ........ >>>>>>> Cookers (CKR1)

 

[cprfenom]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


You see that ugly thing there? Thats my bothered face

I always thought that was your smug face :49:

 

[Tof99]

First you need to teach them how to calculate the correct size of earthing conductor required, and then the correct size of bonding conductor required. You also need to teach them how to identify and test each of the different earthing systems. And of course how to test whether or not a metal pipe requires bonding or not.
They will also need calibrated loop impedance testers to test the Ze, as it would be pointless confirming the size of the earthing conductor is the supplied earth connection is not up to scratch.

Thanks for that Dave.

They can all ID supply types. They all have calibrated MFTs and test Zs from the point of installation.
I have explained how to tell whether a service pipe is an Extraneous conductive part, but to expect them to calculate earthing conductor is, IMO, too much, I know sparks who struggle with that!

As per my original post, all NICEIC expect us to do is check for the present of an earth conductor and main bonding and confirm it isn't undersized etc.
So my original question was how do you guys check the existing cable size, do you use a cable gauge etc or just experience?

Thanks for you help mate.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Thanks for that Dave.

They can all ID supply types. They all have calibrated MFTs and test Zs from the point of installation.
I have explained how to tell whether a service pipe is an Extraneous conductive part, but to expect them to calculate earthing conductor is, IMO, too much, I know sparks who struggle with that!

As per my original post, all NICEIC expect us to do is check for the present of an earth conductor and main bonding and confirm it isn't undersized etc.
So my original question was how do you guys check the existing cable size, do you use a cable gauge etc or just experience?

Thanks for you help mate.

Just experience mate, it's not really difficult to see the difference between 6mm,10mm,16mm, etc