Earth and bonding cable checks-any tools available?

[Tof99]

Hi All,

Just a quick question, I need to get my gas & cooker installers to check earth and bonding conductor presence and sizing, (reg 132.16) what tool, if any, would you recommend? Such as a cable gauge or caliper etc.
What do you guys use, apart from your eyes and experience?

I' d appreciate you suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Plonker 3]

Why are you asking on there behalf?

If they or yourself dont know how to do it get a competant electrician in who can.

 

[Jonspark]

try and get some known sizes of earth cable then offer them up to the existing earth cable for a good indication.

electrical wholesalers should have some off cuts they can give you.

 

[Tof99]

Not really the response I was looking for! I thought this forum was to help each other? (see forum's statement below)

(Please be reminded that if your reply can't help the original poster, it may be seen as pointless and taking the thread off topic. Please make sure what you are about to post is in-keeping with the forum rules, specifically the "be nice" rule. Just be nice and helpful (even to new members) or don't reply at all please. Also note that we urge all members, regular or new, to report any posts that are off-topic, pointless or offensive)

Just to re-clarify:

I have a team of cooker installers who need to confirm earth & bonding sizes, I have the skills to do so, but I am in an office, I cannot expect a cooker installer to know how to, hence the question.

 

[Jonspark]

Not really the response I was looking for! I thought this forum was to help each other? (see forum's statement below)

(Please be reminded that if your reply can't help the original poster, it may be seen as pointless and taking the thread off topic. Please make sure what you are about to post is in-keeping with the forum rules, specifically the "be nice" rule. Just be nice and helpful (even to new members) or don't reply at all please. Also note that we urge all members, regular or new, to report any posts that are off-topic, pointless or offensive)

Just to re-clarify:

I have a team of cooker installers who need to confirm earth & bonding sizes, I have the skills to do so, but I am in an office, I cannot expect a cooker installer to know how to, hence the question.

well if YOU know how to do it why don't YOU tell them?

 

[Silly Sausage]

Hi All,

Just a quick question, I need to get my gas & cooker installers to check earth and bonding conductor presence and sizing, (reg 132.16) what tool, if any, would you recommend? Such as a cable gauge or caliper etc.
What do you guys use, apart from your eyes and experience?

I' d appreciate you suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

Measure the end to end resistance and the length, then look up the csa in the appropriate cable resistance table.

 

[Plonker 3]

Not really the response I was looking for! I thought this forum was to help each other? (see forum's statement below)

(Please be reminded that if your reply can't help the original poster, it may be seen as pointless and taking the thread off topic. Please make sure what you are about to post is in-keeping with the forum rules, specifically the "be nice" rule. Just be nice and helpful (even to new members) or don't reply at all please. Also note that we urge all members, regular or new, to report any posts that are off-topic, pointless or offensive)

Just to re-clarify:

I have a team of cooker installers who need to confirm earth & bonding sizes, I have the skills to do so, but I am in an office, I cannot expect a cooker installer to know how to, hence the question.

well explain to them how to do it then.

 

[Jonspark]

well explain to them how to do it then.

i think he's just very lazy and wants someone else to explain it for him

 

[Plonker 3]

i think he's doesnt know, but trying to make out he does

Edited that for you.

 

[Pete999]

Got to be a wind up, Cooker installers wtf is that, are the "Cooker installers" going to check the main water bond as well? the OP ought to furnish his "Cooker installers" with a MFT to check, oh sorry you need to go on a course to do that, "Cooker installers" my bottom.

 

[Tof99]

thanks Jon,

That's one of my solutions.

 

[Jonspark]

imagine been at school and telling the careers teacher you want to become a cooker installer:dunce2:

 

[Andy78]

imagine been at school and telling the careers teacher you want to become a cooker installer:dunce2:

Imagine running a team of cooker installers and having to ask the internet on ideas on how to do your job.

 

[Plonker 3]

Heres the answer for you then.

Firstly you need to check that the pipes are exteanepus conductive parts ( the test for this is explained in GN8). Now as this requires you to disconnect any bonding conductors you need to safely isolate the whole supply to the installation, but you know how to do thos already dont you?

If it requires bonding

Use the correct meter (according to GN3) to check the end to end resistance of the cable, now this has to be done with cable disconnected at both ends and with the whole supply still isolated from previous test, the result must then comply with the value within GN8

The cable must then be correctly sized for the earthing system in place and size of the incoming neutral.

 

[Jonspark]

Imagine running a team of cooker installers and having to ask the internet on ideas on how to do your job.

Don't make fun, he knows how to do it really, just looking for different ideas from the guys, honest.

 

[Tof99]

A cooker installer, is an installer who can safely install electric, gas and dual fuel cooking appliances.
All of them have a MFT (Fluke 1652) and perform polarity, EFLI pre and post installations, but they are now expected to confirm reg 132.16.

I don't get the negative posts here, I just was looking for some pointers to make their lives a bit easier.

Why all the negatives vibes?

 

[Jonspark]

Heres the answer for you then.

Firstly you need to check that the pipes are exteanepus conductive parts ( the test for this is explained in GN8). Now as this requires you to disconnect any bonding conductors you need to safely isolate the whole supply to the installation, but you know how to do thos already dont you?

If it requires bonding

Use the correct meter (according to GN3) to check the end to end resistance of the cable, now this has to be done with cable disconnected at both ends and with the whole supply still isolated from previous test, the result must then comply with the value within GN8

The cable must then be correctly sized for the earthing system in place and size of the incoming neutral.

yeah exteanepus, that'll really throw him lol

 

[Plonker 3]

A cooker installer, is an installer who can safely install electric, gas and dual fuel cooking appliances.
All of them have a MFT (Fluke 1652) and perform polarity, EFLI pre and post installations, but they are now expected to confirm reg 132.16.

I don't get the negative posts here, I just was looking for some pointers to make their lives a bit easier.

Why all the negatives vibes?

Because you should be capable of teaching them how to do this if your claim earlier is correct.

 

[Tof99]

Surely extraneous?

 

[Plonker 3]

A cooker installer, is an installer who can safely install electric, gas and dual fuel cooking appliances.
All of them have a MFT (Fluke 1652) and perform polarity, EFLI pre and post installations, but they are now expected to confirm reg 132.16.

I don't get the negative posts here, I just was looking for some pointers to make their lives a bit easier.

Why all the negatives vibes?

I hope they carry out all the dead tests too and in the correct order, and understand the results also.

 

[Pete999]

imagine been at school and telling the careers teacher you want to become a cooker installer:dunce2:

'There are loads in Curry's or Comet

 

[Plonker 3]

Surely extraneous?

That wasnt the only typo.

 

[telectrix]

stop calling me shirley.

 

[Pete999]

stop calling me shirley.

Anyone know the C&Gs number for Cooker installing? Electric of course, for Gas you would need a gas safe cert Shirley

 

[Silly Sausage]

That wasnt the only typo.

Somebody's stealing your apostrophes, Bas:censored:! :smilielol5:

 

[Jonspark]

stop calling me shirley.

how many times since 1980 have you used that one? :49:

 

[telectrix]

if these cooker installers are expected to check earthing and bonding, then they should have been trained how. you could help by telling them where the connections are if they are not obvious.

 

[Silly Sausage]

stop calling me shirley.

But you look so nice in that skirt, Tel!

 

[Tof99]

I could easily quote from a GN etc, but those publications are intended for a competent person.
Perhaps I should teach them all the adiabatic calculation?

 

[Plonker 3]

Somebody's stealing your apostrophes, Bas:censored:! :smilielol5:

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


You see that ugly thing there? Thats my bothered face

 

[Silly Sausage]

I could easily quote from a GN etc, but those publications are intended for a competent person.

EH?!?!
If your geezers are doing what you say, surely by definition, they're competent!?!?!?!

 

[Jonspark]

oh no!!!! not the ADIABATIC CALCULATION.

 

[Plonker 3]

I could easily quote from a GN etc, but those publications are intended for a competent person.
Perhaps I should teach them all the adiabatic calculation?

But thats what they need to learn and understand, theres more to electrics than just this cable will do attitude.

 

[Sintra]

I have a team of cooker installers who need to confirm earth & bonding sizes, I have the skills to do so, but I am in an office, I cannot expect a cooker installer to know how to, hence the question.

This section of your earlier post is really confusing me. Firstly you say these cooker installers need to confirm earthing and bonding sizes. Then you go on to state that you would not expect a cooker installer to know how to.

So so if you don't expect them to know how to verify earthing and bonding then why are you expecting them to do so?

 

[Jonspark]

Is it related to the spanish inquisition?

 

[Andy78]

I could easily quote from a GN etc, but those publications are intended for a competent person.
Perhaps I should teach them all the adiabatic calculation?

Perhaps you should yes. If they are not competent to do their job, then why are they carrying out testing of circuits and installation of appliances ?

 

[Plonker 3]

What about BS7671 should they not be expected to understand that neither?

 

[Tof99]

City and Guilds 2359 Level 2 qualification in Installing Consumer Electrical Equipment, full CCN1 and CKR1 Gas safe quals and internal training covering off electrical testing.

The guys are competent in their field, but are not electricians.

 

[telectrix]

that beats my "width underwater" swimming certificate.

 

[Plonker 3]

What do they learn on this course?

Who has decided they need to ensure bonding is the correct size and in place?

 

[Plonker 3]

that beats my "width underwater" swimming certificate.

I thought you would have had the one where you do that in your pyjamas.

 

[Tof99]

What do they learn on this course?

Who has decided they need to ensure bonding is the correct size and in place?

Diilb, their training is very comprehensive, but limited too.
We were challanged by NICEIC on not checking reg 132.16, my argument was we are not altering the installation, just connecting to it (after checking load etc) But NICEIC want us to just confirm presence of earthing conductors and main earthing conductors and confirm sizing is correct.

 

[Silly Sausage]

City and Guilds 2359 Level 2 qualification in Installing Consumer Electrical Equipment, full CCN1 and CKR1 Gas safe quals and internal training covering off electrical testing.

2359 is Servicing Equipment. No Electrical Installation training/quals then?
http://cdn.cityandguilds.com/Produc...ments/2359_L2_3_Qualification_handbook_v1.pdf

The guys are competent in their field, but are not electricians.

What, plugging things in :smilielol5:

 

[Andy78]

Diilb, their training is very comprehensive, but limited too.
We were challanged by NICEIC on not checking reg 132.16, my argument was we are not altering the installation, just connecting to it (after checking load etc) But NICEIC want us to just confirm presence of earthing conductors and main earthing conductors and confirm sizing is correct.

Then you have three choices:

• Train your staff properly to do their job in line with the requests
• Perform on site pre-job assessments yourself or by similarly trained individual in line with requests
• Tell the NICEIC that your work does not fall within the remit of their requests and to go forth and pester someone else.

 

[Tof99]

2359 is Servicing Equipment. No Electrical Installation training/quals then?
http://cdn.cityandguilds.com/Produc...ments/2359_L2_3_Qualification_handbook_v1.pdf





What, plugging things in :smilielol5:

Archy: The electrical training is done outside of that C&G exam, partly withing the Gas safe and then a 3 day internal course (approved by awarding bodies)

 

[Pete999]

Diilb, their training is very comprehensive, but limited too.
We were challanged by NICEIC on not checking reg 132.16, my argument was we are not altering the installation, just connecting to it (after checking load etc) But NICEIC want us to just confirm presence of earthing conductors and main earthing conductors and confirm sizing is correct.

Are you, or is your company part of a Competent Persons Scheme (NICEIC being one of them)

 

[Tof99]

Are you, or is your company part of a Competent Persons Scheme (NICEIC being one of them)

It's a large company, but we have some sites that are under NICEIC Limited scope (Level B, minor works) but the majority aren't.

 

[Pete999]

It's a large company, but we have some sites that are under NICEIC Limited scope (Level B, minor works) but the majority aren't.

Then what business is it of NICEIC to tell you what to do?

 

[Tof99]

Then what business is it of NICEIC to tell you what to do?

Fair comment Pete!

It's because in the longer term we are looking at full scope for the whole business, so we need to be seen to be doing things correctly.

IMO, I don't feel we need to be doing any more than just a visual check that the incoming services are bonded, after all we are just installing appliances and do perform an EFLI test which will prove there is a 'decent' earth path. But their Area Engineer suggested we should be doing full 132.16 checks.

 

[telectrix]

I thought you would have had the one where you do that in your pyjamas.

got that as well. fetching a brick from the bottom.