Advice Rogue Kitchen Fitter

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brizospark

Been trading on my own now for almost a year and mostly going well. I have been having problems with one customer though, a kitchen fitter who subcontracts me.

I have been doing work for him now for around 4 months and we agreed on price per point and payments to be made 14 days after kitchen is complete. First few jobs no problem, paid just about on time. After that however he has been an absolute nightmare to get paid from. Every time since the first couple of kitchens I have had to ask him at least 4 or 5 times for the money, which is frustrating anyway. I have heard every excuse you could think of, all the usual ones, problems with online banking etc etc.

So anyway I had a couple of weeks break over Christmas / New Year so thought I will get fully squared up before starting any further work. After Christmas break still no payment, 3 x invoices outstanding, the furthest back around 2 x months since I done the work.

So he gets in touch with me asking what day I am available to wire kitchen, I told him I would be available Thurs/Fri but would require payment first, not possible he said, I will pay you next week. Heard it all before, I thought, I'm not getting any further into this until I get paid. So I told him that I would definitely need squaring up before starting any new kitchens. So he text me saying I will just have to get someone else then. OK I thought, no great loss.

The real problem started yesterday though when he said that one kitchen we fitted, a month ago, RCD has started tripping. I explained that the problem would be with the wiring elsewhere in the house, not the kitchen, as all the kitchen wiring new and rest of house old with some pretty dodgy electric work that I noticed. Anyway, you can't call 1 month after work has been completed and suddenly say there is a problem with my work which was all tested ok. Plus the job was 60 miles away.

So anyway after explaining that the problem most likely be with the existing wiring he said you will still need to go and check it ASAP. I then said I would nip in and check it as a gesture of good will next time I was in the area (next week anyway) but I wouldn't be doing so unless I received the late payments from him. He then got back in touch and sad don't bother I will get someone else to do it and take the bill of of your payment!

Could not believe the cheek of this! Just wondering what advise you guys have on this. I don't know whether to go down the legal route to get my money as I don't see payment coming through any time soon.

I know what I should do, and want to do, but that might jeopardize getting my money even more!!!
 
Difficult one re the tripping as its 60 miles away. The most important question is do you really want to do more work with this chap - and only you can answer this!
 
People like the muppet you are talking about, really make me want to vomit, one of these guys shafted my lad like yours has done to do you know what you want to do but can't as it is illegal. They're chancers through and through, ought to be shot barstewards
 
Make it clear that you want paying or you will be going public!

I had some clown owe me money not too long ago, not a great deal but still, it's the principle, He runs a well known chain of beauty salons throughout the South East and has about 5,000 followers on Twitter. After the first public mention on Twitter about how much money he owed me for starting rectification work on his dangerous installation he paid up within the hour and my Tweet was deleted!

If this option won't work for whatever reason then make it very clear to him that unless he pays all monies owed by a certain date that you will start court proceedings. If he doesn't pay then stick to it and take him to court!

Another option is to use the threat of costing him more than he owes you! If he knows that one day he'll come out to find his nice shiny M5 full of expandy foam he might think twice about not settling up in full! Just don't get caught and don't make direct threats.

The other option is to sell his debt to you to a debt collector, one thing worth noting is that you'll probably get much better value for money talking to a *cough cough* debt collector *cough cough* as opposed to a proper firm.

There are many options available to you, thankfully I have only been owed money a handful of times and only one person was ever a pain to get the money out of, but I got it eventually!

I feel for you mate, I know first hand what kitchen fitters are like! Cockroaches, the lot of 'em!
 
Just had a guy who in the passed had p155ed me about something rotten,he rang me yesterday needing something done asap,asked him for his credit card which he gave me,so ordered the gear I wanted and no argument about do you really need that.sometimes somehow you,ve got to teach them a lesson.
 
D Skelton said:
Make it clear that you want paying or you will be going public!

I had some clown owe me money not too long ago, not a great deal but still, it's the principle, He runs a well known chain of beauty salons throughout the South East and has about 5,000 followers on Twitter. After the first public mention on Twitter about how much money he owed me for starting rectification work on his dangerous installation he paid up within the hour and my Tweet was deleted!

If this option won't work for whatever reason then make it very clear to him that unless he pays all monies owed by a certain date that you will start court proceedings. If he doesn't pay then stick to it and take him to court!

Another option is to use the threat of costing him more than he owes you! If he knows that one day he'll come out to find his nice shiny M5 full of expandy foam he might think twice about not settling up in full! Just don't get caught and don't make direct threats.

The other option is to sell his debt to you to a debt collector, one thing worth noting is that you'll probably get much better value for money talking to a *cough cough* debt collector *cough cough* as opposed to a proper firm.

There are many options available to you, thankfully I have only been owed money a handful of times and only one person was ever a pain to get the money out of, but I got it eventually!

I feel for you mate, I know first hand what kitchen fitters are like! Cockroaches, the lot of 'em!
Click to expand...
All you need to remember is the foam goes in the door gap,then the exhaust,not just the exhaust which is the mistake most people make.
 
D Skelton said:
Make it clear that you want paying or you will be going public!

I had some clown owe me money not too long ago, not a great deal but still, it's the principle, He runs a well known chain of beauty salons throughout the South East and has about 5,000 followers on Twitter. After the first public mention on Twitter about how much money he owed me for starting rectification work on his dangerous installation he paid up within the hour and my Tweet was deleted!

If this option won't work for whatever reason then make it very clear to him that unless he pays all monies owed by a certain date that you will start court proceedings. If he doesn't pay then stick to it and take him to court!

Another option is to use the threat of costing him more than he owes you! If he knows that one day he'll come out to find his nice shiny M5 full of expandy foam he might think twice about not settling up in full! Just don't get caught and don't make direct threats.

The other option is to sell his debt to you to a debt collector, one thing worth noting is that you'll probably get much better value for money talking to a *cough cough* debt collector *cough cough* as opposed to a proper firm.

There are many options available to you, thankfully I have only been owed money a handful of times and only one person was ever a pain to get the money out of, but I got it eventually!

I feel for you mate, I know first hand what kitchen fitters are like! Cockroaches, the lot of 'em!
Click to expand...

Trouble is mate going public doesn't worry some of the gits who owe money, like the last bit about "dept collectors"
 
max payment terms without prior agreement are 30 days from invoice, after which you can charge statutory interest rates, and commence county court proceedings against them which they would have to cover the costs of.

send him final demand in writing with 7 days notice to pay before interest and legal fees get added to the bill.
 
D Skelton said:
Who cares about the exhaust. It only goes in the door gap! lol.

£20 for a box of eight canisters of the stuff, two locked on for each door!
Click to expand...
you evil SOB put you me and my dog together and we could take over the country lol:lol: and if we come unstuck Tony and Geordie can run backup.
 
I have a genuine sympathy for the OP and i feel loathed to say what i know to be true,but,you lead him to the point you are at by allowing increasing deviations. The day late,two days late,banking problems etc etc gives these people a reason to wind in the micky. More than likely,he had already decided to find a reason to stiff you,and don't forget,any chance of recovering something lessens with continued work-based discussion. Done some recovery work,embarrassment,persistence and shame get some money back,anything physical or wordy usually provides minor satisfaction and/or time away from your children......Pursue him. The internet makes it a doddle. Find who HE respects,works for,associates with,and,providing you are fully in the right,captive-bolt him....good luck.
 
The cucking funt who owed me £1300 who unfortunately cannot be named on here but gets bad mouthed in every merchant in Leicester, he paid first job instantly, then the next two, took me 60+ days to get the money. He would just say stop asking I'm irritating him, and you will get it one day, or I've not been paid so I'm not paying you. I did three jobs in total for him, first paid iimmediately, then I thought I'll do another as he will probably pay, but then I did not her back to back to it, so I thought well he will probably pay this week.

Anyway, got my money, yesterday, took a £60 court claim letter to him, and he paid up immediately, -------! It coat me £60 but at least I have the money now.

A mans best friend = http://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
 
phil d said:
All you need to remember is the foam goes in the door gap,then the exhaust,not just the exhaust which is the mistake most people make.
Click to expand...

Lets not forget the "super glue" in the key hole trick! It works on cars, vans and homes. On one occasion (when I knew he was out for the night) I did "a Trick" and left him a torn out page from the Yellow pages for a locksmith on his front door step held down by an off cut of 1.5mm T&E!!!! He got the message!



3-4 Cans of foam will fill the cabin of the car, just need 1 for the engine and what is left over will do the exhaust. Wait until you get paid first, then play trick or treat? Rumor has it that a disgruntled sparky was had for just over a grand from a millionaire contractor and his Range Rover Vogue cost £24k to repair????


Get your money first then you can have your revenge.
 
I like the building foam idea, you know, although I have my money now, I'm still going to do something to him one day.

Maybe put building foam in his mouth, seriously he deserves it!

If someone does some work for me, I pay them immediately on completion in full.

I bet these people go in sainsburys etc, fill the trolly and walk out and say, I've not been paid yet, so I'm not paying you...

I say, if they hve had the goods / services, then they should pay.
 
The bloke that messed me about, his van windscreen is covered in serious amounts of scratches like someone had been over it with a load of screwdrivers and really badly, I mean really badly scratched it up all over, to the point it verges on looking like a frosted window with a pattern in it from a far.

I asked him how it happened and he said, he had an apprentice who tried scraping ice off it with a paint scraper, ppersonally I think someone got their own back.

When I first met the bloke, he said his other electrician broke his leg, the storey changed over a few weeks to he's just busy... He probably never paid him and told him to sling his hook.
 
uksparks said:
If someone does some work for me, I pay them immediately on completion in full.
Click to expand...

Exactly!!!

One time I even had to take out a loan to pay my guys and my subbies as cash flow was so poor that month and my invoice to the main contractor still hadn't been paid. I spent two weeks eating beans on toast! We are talking tens of thousands here!

That's the price you pay for running a company sometimes! Yes, 99 times out of a hundred you will be making alot more than the guys working for you, but that one time, you will be up s**t creek without a paddle whilst your guys are still comfortable.

An employer has a duty is to ensure that their employees and subcontractors get paid right and get paid on time!

That's the way I see it. You can't have your cake and eat it!
 
D Skelton said:
Exactly!!!

One time I even had to take out a loan to pay my guys and my subbies as cash flow was so poor that month and my invoice to the main contractor still hadn't been paid. I spent two weeks eating beans on toast! We are talking tens of thousands here!

That's the price you pay for running a company sometimes! Yes, 99 times out of a hundred you will be making alot more than the guys working for you, but that one time, you will be up s**t creek without a paddle whilst your guys are still comfortable.

An employer has a duty is to ensure that their employees and subcontractors get paid right and get paid on time!

That's the way I see it. You can't have your cake and eat it!
Click to expand...

There were times when I did without pay myself to ensure my employees got what I owed them.
 
There are unwritten rules to this game by the way.

Only effect the one your aiming at, not his family or friends. That is a big NO NO in my book.

Causing an effect upon that persons business is ok as long has you can prove everything you say in a court of law.

Physical action should always be avoided or be the last course of action. Whatever "boys" you have, he will have some "boys" himself. They maybe bigger, stronger, harder and in more numbers than what you can handle. Ask yourself, IS IT WORTH THE MONEY?


Go down the legal route and put on top your hourly rate for every hour you have spent on your case. Inform him of such and good luck.
 
I tend to agree, personally I try to live a quiet peaceful life without problems from people, I'm not looking for hassle, I'll just get him in other ways, like tip offs to HMRC about the amount he is making and not charging VAT or, mr HMRC, he keeps wanting to pay cash no receipts or invoices etc, I know the buttons to press to get them snooping round his business.

Ill have one fun with it, I was so wound up and stressed the other week, it made me feel I'll, I mean what a cheek, he says stop asking for the money as its irritating him.
 
D Skelton said:
Exactly!!!

One time I even had to take out a loan to pay my guys and my subbies as cash flow was so poor that month and my invoice to the main contractor still hadn't been paid. I spent two weeks eating beans on toast! We are talking tens of thousands here!

That's the price you pay for running a company sometimes! Yes, 99 times out of a hundred you will be making alot more than the guys working for you, but that one time, you will be up s**t creek without a paddle whilst your guys are still comfortable.

An employer has a duty is to ensure that their employees and subcontractors get paid right and get paid on time!

That's the way I see it. You can't have your cake and eat it!
Click to expand...

My parents-in-law had a company employing 30+ blokes. Main company (local council) did not pay up £350K on time. They had to remortgage their house to pay wages. Every man got paid, every week without fail regardless of their income.


Some people in this world are worth their weight in gold. Others are worth their weight in ----.





Note to all out there......

Goolgle is not a magical thing! It is not just for the knowledgeable or rich people on this planet. Just look up any firm that you are offered work from, simples :wink:
 
D Skelton said:
Just the way it should be!
Click to expand...


Yep. When I employed Sparkysharky from this forum for the first time, I picked her up and I had her two days wages in cash waiting for her on the dashboard of the van before she even got in. She was skint at the time (we have all been there) and I dont ever mess people about. I have learnt this from Druhamsparks, I did 2 days for him and on the journey back home he sent a text to me "Wages Paid". Should have been a week before payment but he did it in an hour! It makes a massive difference when your skint.
 
This thread reminds me.... Earlier this week I got a call from Admin Phil to do a call out for one of his regular customers. I've done a few little jobs in the past for this regular customer and he drags his feet when it comes down to the money. Not this time lol.

The job was to wire and plumb up a 2 phase coffee machine in his restaurant at 4:30pm ffs. I had to drive off and get plumbing parts and did not finish until 9:30pm! Told him the bill, "Cant pay you until the till is cashed up." Thats fine I said, I'll just wait at the bar with a complimentary pint or two until you cash it up!

That got his arse into gear, ten minutes later he took me over to the till and I cleared out every note he had, he even had to pay me in 50p's to fore-fill the full bill!!!! As I say, I have had dealings with this chap before. Normally takes a few days for him to pay up for a "cash at the end of the job" deal. Told him the last time that for every hour it takes me to chase you for money, drive out to pick it up or wait for it to hit my bank account, I will charge £20 per hour.

I loved the look on his face once when he said "I've only got credit cards on me." Fine, I'll just get my phone out of my pocket and you can pay by card + a 5% charge. Amassing how fast he went to the cash machine around the corner for a £150 invoice lol.

I'll end up doing more work for the little rounded door handle, but at least he knows where he stands with me.
 
Cheers for input guys. This guy works directly for one kitchen firm only so I suppose he wouldn't want them finding out he isn't paying his subcontractors on time
 
brizospark said:
Cheers for input guys. This guy works directly for one kitchen firm only so I suppose he wouldn't want them finding out he isn't paying his subcontractors on time
Click to expand...

If this isn't the case he's more of a plonker than you've made out. A few words to his "employer" and he could be looking for a new "employer". lol
 
"Big boys come" (Harry Enfield) send some boys round (big ones) or trading standards (Dom Littlewood)
 
better still. ask them if they are struggling to pay him, as he seems unable to pay you. that should get them annoyed.
 
brizospark said:
Been trading on my own now for almost a year and mostly going well. I have been having problems with one customer though, a kitchen fitter who subcontracts me.

I have been doing work for him now for around 4 months and we agreed on price per point and payments to be made 14 days after kitchen is complete. First few jobs no problem, paid just about on time. After that however he has been an absolute nightmare to get paid from. Every time since the first couple of kitchens I have had to ask him at least 4 or 5 times for the money, which is frustrating anyway. I have heard every excuse you could think of, all the usual ones, problems with online banking etc etc.

So anyway I had a couple of weeks break over Christmas / New Year so thought I will get fully squared up before starting any further work. After Christmas break still no payment, 3 x invoices outstanding, the furthest back around 2 x months since I done the work.

So he gets in touch with me asking what day I am available to wire kitchen, I told him I would be available Thurs/Fri but would require payment first, not possible he said, I will pay you next week. Heard it all before, I thought, I'm not getting any further into this until I get paid. So I told him that I would definitely need squaring up before starting any new kitchens. So he text me saying I will just have to get someone else then. OK I thought, no great loss.

The real problem started yesterday though when he said that one kitchen we fitted, a month ago, RCD has started tripping. I explained that the problem would be with the wiring elsewhere in the house, not the kitchen, as all the kitchen wiring new and rest of house old with some pretty dodgy electric work that I noticed. Anyway, you can't call 1 month after work has been completed and suddenly say there is a problem with my work which was all tested ok. Plus the job was 60 miles away.

So anyway after explaining that the problem most likely be with the existing wiring he said you will still need to go and check it ASAP. I then said I would nip in and check it as a gesture of good will next time I was in the area (next week anyway) but I wouldn't be doing so unless I received the late payments from him. He then got back in touch and sad don't bother I will get someone else to do it and take the bill of of your payment!

Could not believe the cheek of this! Just wondering what advise you guys have on this. I don't know whether to go down the legal route to get my money as I don't see payment coming through any time soon.

I know what I should do, and want to do, but that might jeopardize getting my money even more!!!
Click to expand...

Regular work is great but not if you ain't getting paid. It isn't worth the hassle. Sue him - Small Claims section of the County Court. Get your money, plus interest and costs!
 
too unsubtle. aerosol spray saying " i'm pregnant, you b*****d." on his car.
 
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