25mm tails maintenance free joint

[Aindowsimon]

New tails or Through crimps and heat shrink within enclosure

 

[Dave OCD]

Think about it though, if done correctly with 100a single pole blocks each conductor could be under 4 brass screws, with all those properly tightened and the blocks within an enclosure I honestly can't see a problem.

 

[DPG]

Think about it though, if done correctly with 100a single pole blocks each conductor could be under 4 brass screws, with all those properly tightened and the blocks within an enclosure I honestly can't see a problem.

In reality probably not - are you going to put your name on the paperwork then? Daz

 

[Dave OCD]

In reality probably not - are you going to put your name on the paperwork then? Daz

If it was an EICR I'd put it as a code 3 with a comment Daz, I'd always use continuous lengths of tails on a new install though so the question doesn't apply in that scenario.

 

[DPG]

If it was an EICR I'd put it as a code 3 with a comment Daz, I'd always use continuous lengths of tails on a new install though so the question doesn't apply in that scenario.

Nicely got out of Daz

 

[Darkwood]

Think about it though, if done correctly with 100a single pole blocks each conductor could be under 4 brass screws, with all those properly tightened and the blocks within an enclosure I honestly can't see a problem.

The problem with standard screw terminals is the cable is subject to creep when they are first tightened, this is due to the copper shaping and equalising the stresses after tightening, this can leave the termination more susceptible to loosening with temperature variations and/or vibration over time.
It can effect larger core cables more so thus it is recommended to check all your dist' board connections at the end of the job, chances are you will find the tails need a tweak.
Other issues are cable movement which may act on the termination, if cables are clamped then not an issue. When you use MF connections or crimps then alot of these issues are reduced to a minimum thus considered safe to terminate and forget.

 

[Dave OCD]

It's funny but I've always been a bit wary of crimps, just me I suppose.

 

[Andy78]

It's funny but I've always been a bit wary of crimps, just me I suppose.

Depends how you do them. I have always been a bit suspect of indent crimpers. There is too much margin for error when manually setting them and I believe the indent method puts too much stress on the crimp sleeve.

I have complete faith in a crimp made with the correct hexagon die in a decent tool though.

 

[Octopus]

If it was an EICR I'd put it as a code 3 with a comment Daz, I'd always use continuous lengths of tails on a new install though so the question doesn't apply in that scenario.

how on earth would you know the connection is under the carpet, under the floor boards??

I'd be VERY impressed if you can spot a totally CONCEALED connection is such a location when doing an EICR!

 

[Darkwood]

It's funny but I've always been a bit wary of crimps, just me I suppose.

If you own a budget £1 market crimper then I would just be as weary, if your crimper isn't subject to calibration or you have a set that doesn't require it then again I wouldn't consider them reliable. At a minimum you should be looking for a ratchet crimper for your standard insulated red,yellow,blue crimp lugs and small ratchet indent crimper for your uninsulated say 10 -16mm up to 25mm.

 

[Stu1312]

Not a big fan of indent crimpers so invested in these about a year ago very pleased: CRT 50 For Copper Tube Terminals 6.0 - 50.0mm² - - Tooling For Copper Tube Terminals - Copper Tube Terminals & Tooling - Connect - Cablecraft

 

[HandySparks]

how on earth would you know the connection is under the carpet, under the floor boards??

I'd be VERY impressed if you can spot a totally CONCEALED connection is such a location when doing an EICR!

If they went in black and red, and emerged as blue and brown, you might get a bit suspicious. :lol:

 

[PEG]

Depends how you do them. I have always been a bit suspect of indent crimpers. There is too much margin for error when manually setting them and I believe the indent method puts too much stress on the crimp sleeve.

I have complete faith in a crimp made with the correct hexagon die in a decent tool though.

As have tool manufacturers such as Klauke and the companies which purchase and use them,such as BNFL and a dozen similar others...:lol:

 

[Dave OCD]

how on earth would you know the connection is under the carpet, under the floor boards??

I'd be VERY impressed if you can spot a totally CONCEALED connection is such a location when doing an EICR!

Oh dear, the answer was hypothetical in reply to a question from DPG and based on the assumption that I was aware of the issue, nothing more than that.

 

[sparksburnout]

Joining meter tails is a crap idea. Run some new uns in.

 

[IzzyS]

I would assume the term accessible within our industry would refer to the common practices done to inspect and test a property, as a whole, ripping carpets up and pulling boards up wouldn't be carried out on such an inspection so any joint that wouldn't be expected to be checked, would in my mind be classed as inaccessible, I would expect any sparky worth his salt to stick his head in the loft and check for joints etc unless its boarded out then they should be MF.

This is my opinion and based on common sense of joints that are unlikely to be checked during a routine inspection report so any chances of obvious issues that could be spotted with a visual but not picked up by testing is reduced with the use of MF joints.

I'm not suggesting hiding JBs is good practice - merely stating that at least the plumbers have some proper guidance on what is considered "accessible" in their industry.

Regarding loft spaces, everyone I look in seems to have 18" of fibreglass insulation covering pipes, cables, downlights & LV transformers. I for one don't remove it all in the search for JBs that may or may not be there.

However, there must be literally millions of round JBs hidden in the UK domestic sector, with only a small percentage causing any problems. The test part of the I&T usually shows up any problems, then the fun begins.

 

[Darkwood]

I'm not suggesting hiding JBs is good practice - merely stating that at least the plumbers have some proper guidance on what is considered "accessible" in their industry.

Regarding loft spaces, everyone I look in seems to have 18" of fibreglass insulation covering pipes, cables, downlights & LV transformers. I for one don't remove it all in the search for JBs that may or may not be there.

However, there must be literally millions of round JBs hidden in the UK domestic sector, with only a small percentage causing any problems. The test part of the I&T usually shows up any problems, then the fun begins.

The very reason you need to stick your head up, if you see recessed lights that require clearance and there is non obvious then I would at least check on 1 fitting to gage the general state of the other regarding their circumstances, I never said go through the loft with a fine tooth brush but a general overview looking for any obvious breaches or concerns.
It should always be expressed the depth the inspection will go to with the customer and yes agree, many joints won't be found but that only strengthens my point of view that any connection made that is likely to miss regular inspection should be made maintenance free for those very reasons.

It's not about the thousands that are missed without consequence, its about the few that don't get inspected and do cause damage to life or property.