Adiabatic question

[Paul_K]

Hi guys,


I have brain freeze and need some help!


I'm currently looking to run in a radial socket outlet circuit to a bedroom from a spare way in the consumer unit. The total circuit length will be approx 10 meters of 2.5 t&e. The supply is a TNC-S arrangement with a Ze of 0.13ohm (by direct measurement). The circuit protection is by way of a 20amp Type B BSEN60898 mini circuit breaker. NO RCD!!


Normally I would just follow the typical values in the OSG. This time though, I decided to just calculate it... Have to keep doing it once in a while or I'll forget!! :-/
The cable itself is fine (obviously) until I check the cpc size using the adiabatic equation. Can someone tell me if I've got this right? :-/


Ze = 0.13


R1+ R2 = 0.23 (adjusted for temperature @ 10 x 19.51 x 1.2)


Zs = Ze + R1 + R2
= 0.36


230/0.36
= 639A


K factor = 115
Assuming instantaneous time of 0.1sec


S = sroot(639*x0.1)/K
= 1.76??


Thanks in advance!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

i see where 639A has come from...

but you are looking for the fault current needed to acheave a .1 to 5 sec disconnection time...aren`t you...it aint 639A...is it

 

[Paul_K]

I can't believe that slipped past... Embarrassed now! lol :-/

 

[Guest55]

looks like youre gonna need a cable with at least a 1.75mm cpc , which will be 6mm t&e ;-)


or maybe look at time current graphs for a 20a mcb ............


which will probably end up giving you a min cpc size of around half that.

 

[ipf]

Don't forget the RCD.

 

[Paul_K]

Uhuh... Please continue!It's entertaining!

 

[Paul_K]

What does an RCD do anyway?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

What does an RCD do anyway?

lolffs....lol....lol..

 

[MDJ]

What does an RCD do anyway?

It can help you learn how to play the Piano

 

[ipf]

What does an RCD do anyway?

Runs Current Down

 

[Paul_K]

Can I run it under a carpet though?

 

[MDJ]

Lets end this now, a 2.5mm2 cable to a socket as a single radial to a bedroom 10 mtrs away from the dist board?? yes okay get on with it, 16 amp mcb and you will be fine, fluck the calculations on this occassion.

 

[Paul_K]

What is a semi enclosed fused to BS3036 .. Should I touch this stuff?

 

[GLENNSPARK]

What does an RCD do anyway?

it makes red current drinks....

 

[Pete999]

Residual clot device

 

[Simonslimline]

View attachment 22881 This may help

 

[GLENNSPARK]

View attachment 22881 This may help

and just when where all having a childish hour....you have to come along and grow up...

 

[Paul_K]

What about that RCD thingy though? Should I turn my fridge off before running this cable?! :-/ you're all confusing me now!! :-((

 

[Simonslimline]

I have let the thread down. Sorry:nono:

and just when where all having a childish hour....you have to come along and grow up...

 

[guest119]

Rewriteable c d (karaoke etc)

Boydy

 

[MDJ]

I have let the thread down. Sorry:nono:

Consider yourself Black balled lol

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I have let the thread down. Sorry:nono:

yes you certainly have....go stand in the corner:dunce2:

 

[ian.settle1]

What does an RCD do anyway?

Right Clever Dick

 

[MDJ]

yes you certainly have....go stand in the corner:dunce2:

Gasp, you don't mean?? you do mean?? what with the 5wws, Glenn that is harsh LOL

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Gasp, you don't mean?? you do mean?? what with the 5wws, Glenn that is harsh LOL

i`m having a quiet, peaceful sunday....a gentle stroll through the forums....

i may feel different later on mind....

 

[silverfox1]

Hi Paul as your figure calculated using the adiabatic equation will not get a corresponding figure of t from the time / current graph you can obtain the I2t energy let through figure from your MCB manufacturer, you can then substitute it into the adiabatic equation.
The I2t figure for a crabtree starbreaker 20A type B 6K mcb is 22260 put that figure into the adiabatic .
Square root of 22260 / 115 will give minimum size cpc of 1.3mm.

 

[Guest569]

Just get it done....seriously.

 

[HandySparks]

Hi Paul as your figure calculated using the adiabatic equation will not get a corresponding figure of t from the time / current graph you can obtain the I2t energy let through figure from your MCB manufacturer, you can then substitute it into the adiabatic equation.
The I2t figure for a crabtree starbreaker 20A type B 6K mcb is 22260 put that figure into the adiabatic .
Square root of 22260 / 115 will give minimum size cpc of 1.3mm.

Thanks for reminding me of this; they list I²t figures in the technical section at the end of their catalogue. As it happens, I generally use Crabtree Starbreaker, but does anyone know whether these figures are typical for other makes of BS 60898 circuit breakers?

 

[silverfox1]

HandySparks

there is a reference table for minimum size cpc when using energy limiting class 3 mcb in onsite guide, table B7 page 120.

 

[Paul_K]

I hate this forum!!


One of the reasons I never use it, is there's far too many egotistical smart arses on it who are only here to measure the length on their dicks with each other!


Thanks Silverfox1 for the feedback, it's much appreciated! At least there's someone willing to take the time to give a sensible answer!...........


Now to the admin,


Please delete my account, your forum is a disgrace, and seems only to serve very little purpose other than to serve up illiterate people trying their very best to sound clever!


Tedious and off putting!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I hate this forum!!


One of the reasons I never use it, is there's far too many egotistical smart arses on it who are only here to measure the length on their dicks with each other!


Thanks Silverfox1 for the feedback, it's much appreciated! At least there's someone willing to take the time to give a sensible answer!...........


Now to the admin,


Please delete my account, your forum is a disgrace, and seems only to serve very little purpose other than to serve up illiterate people trying their very best to sound clever!


Tedious and off putting!!

come on Paul..
i gave you a reasonable answer...

 

[Marvo]

I hate this forum!!........
Now to the admin,
Please delete my account, your forum is a disgrace,......

Okay, account closed.