found out electrician not registered midway through rewire

[TrappedinTheWeb]

Hi all
im a non expert homeowner and battling to understand the regulations. And apologies for the length of the post, a long story.
we have an electrician who came to fix a small issue few weeks ago. He seemed good. through discussion he ended up taking on fuse box replacement which we knew was needed and our previous guy had failed to come back to do. He said he could test and certify it when done but when the time came he said he couldn't because his tests showed the wiring was not right, and the house needed a rewire. It All seemed plausible and it is an old house we've recently bought, so not a huge shock to hear this.
We were under the impression the whole time that he was certified, through discussion about getting a cert and because he showed us a cert he had completed with test readings. We do feel he misled us into believing he was certified in some way although we perhaps should have asked for proof.
he is now half way through the rewire and the work to us looks fine, very neat,( though he's insisting that the sockets are placed 450 up under part m, which I now don't think is required in an old house). Had full faith in him until spoke to building control and transpired when directly asked that he can't certify for them and now ive checked and he also doesn't appear on nic eic either. I gather he should have told BC before starting the work which he didn't. So he's breached the regs, right?
we liked him but we think we can't possibly let him continue if he's completely unregistered and unregulated though he may well be qualified. We are worried about all sorts of risks; if it invalidate our insurance and he may not be insured either and we'd have no recourse if issues later. Are we overreacting and how do I broach this with him as he has no idea we are considering cutting his job short.? bC said they will come and certify it for a fee but not sure that's reassuring enough to let him continue.
grateful for any advice, feels like a very difficult situation and we're just not sure what to do.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

Some Stroma members are on there

My mistake, sorry.

 

[lecsleaford]

I hope the register has everyone on it. I thought that was the idea. Waste of time if they aren't. Tonight is the first time I've looked at it. Checked I was on.

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I hope the register has everyone on it. I thought that was the idea. Waste of time if they aren't. Tonight is the first time I've looked at it. Checked I was on.

I have spoken to Stroma and they say they are having difficulty syncing with it...annoying!

 

[NDG Elecs]

I have spoken to Stroma and they say they are having difficulty syncing with it...annoying!

Pay peanuts, you get monkeys..... !! :smile5:

All schemes have their foibles.

 

[Richard Burns]

You can also check on the competent person site very similar to the one linked above but for all trades in competent person schemes.

I should mention that there are two different types of certificate relating to electrical work.

One is an installation certificate as required by the wiring regulations.

The other is required by the building regulations and will be a building regulations compliance or building regulations completion certificate depending on the method of notification.

This maybe why your electrician said he could provide certification, he was talking about electrical installation certificates.

This does not detract from the failure to comply with the legally binding building regulations.

 

[TrappedinTheWeb]

If he's a sole trader then he wont be listed on Companies House. Is he trading as a Ltd company?

There could be an innocent explanation, like he is registered with Napit or Stroma and is trading as a sole trader, and you wont know until you ask him.

Also, you talk about regs and certs and this could be confusing as there are wiring regs and building regs and electrical installation certificates and building regulations compliance certificates. He will be able to give you an electrical installation certificate regardless of whether or not he is registered with a part P scheme, but he wont be able to give you a building regulations compliance certificate if he is not registered.

Thanks Tuttle - these are useful points, and you're right. I guess I don't think not being on Companies House in itself is necessarily a problem, but it means I can't see, say, a history for his company, that would have provided some reassurance given the other uncertainty.

I also take your point that he could mean different certificate - this may be the case, and then it's as much our own confusion. However, if it turns out he is not registered at all with any government scheme, (and that is still an 'if') how can he issue certificates? Or put another way, what qualifies someone to issue installation certs? It would seem strange if anyone who's ever been qualified can issue them, without having to meet any other criteria. But maybe that's the case.

 

[TrappedinTheWeb]

However, being registered does mean that the electrician has to have Public Liability Insurance which is some security for the homeowner. Perhaps you could ask if he has some?

Perhaps you could try and get building authorities involved now? You could also ask the electrician for some contact details of any other recent jobs he has completed and ask the homeowners about his standard of work which may give you some piece of mind?
.

Hi HappyHippyDad,
Thanks for these points. So as a homeowner the PL insurance is a massive worry for me, And one of the main reasons discovering he is not registered was a lurch in the stomach. They were in the house working and if anything happened to them.. what then?
And your suggestions are good ones. I have Building Control calling me today to arrange a site visit - this will be a big help.

I would ask to see other work but tbh I work full time, and I don't have a lot of time to make trips to see things as that often tends to be a distance away so practically that can be tricky, and I would also be a bit unsure I wasn't looking at his friend's house. Sorry if that sounds cynical.. I know most people are honest and straight up, but it's the odd few you have to be careful of.

 

[TrappedinTheWeb]

Home

Thanks Lecsleaford. Useful. He is not on it

 

[TrappedinTheWeb]

It's all to do with the interpretation of 'the person carrying out the work' which, in the building regulations is interpreted to mean the person responsible, the person enlisting the services of others to do that work. It's always the Homeowner who will be served an enforcement notice for this reason.

To let you know on this point, Spoke with BC this morning. They said he should have told us before he started if he's not registered. I asked if it was my responsibility or his? The answer was that the homeowner has the responsibility but you're not going to know the regulations like he should. He would know this and should have done it, or told us (their view).
So seems like the tradesman has the knowledge to do it, but the homeowner carries the can (and presumably takes the fine) if it's not done. So it does bear out what D Skelton has said.

 

[Tuttle]

Hi HappyHippyDay,
Thanks for these points. So as a homeowner the PL insurance is a massive worry for me, And one of the main reasons discovering he is not registered was a lurch in the stomach. They were in the house working and if anything happened to them.. what then?
And your suggestions are good ones. I have Building Control calling me today to arrange a site visit - this will be a big help.

I would ask to see other work but tbh I work full time, and I don't have a lot of time to make trips to see things as that often tends to be a distance away so practically that can be tricky, and also I would also be a bit unsure I wasn't looking at this friend's house. Sorry if that sounds cynical.. I know most people are honest and straight up, but it's the odd few you have to be careful of.

He should have PL insurance regardless of whether or not he is registered with a Part P scheme. This insurance is not normally provided by the scheme provider, it's just that they check that contractors have sufficient PL insurance on the annual visit, so there is little danger of a contractor not having this insurance if they are registered with a scheme

 

[TrappedinTheWeb]

He should have PL insurance regardless of whether or not he is registered with a Part P scheme. This insurance is not normally provided by the scheme provider, it's just that they check that contractors have sufficient PL insurance on the annual visit, so there is little danger of a contractor not having this insurance if they are registered with a scheme

Thanks Tuttle. I guess though if I had thought he wasn't registered, I would have specifically asked and checked he has PL. He has not turned up on any of the registers provided so far, though this may be because I am not searching in the right way. I will ask him if he's registered on a scheme.

 

[ruston]

Thanks Tuttle. I guess though if I had thought he wasn't registered, I would have specifically asked and checked he has PL. He has not turned up on any of the registers provided so far, though this may be because I am not searching in the right way. I will ask him if he's registered on a scheme.

You should of asked if BC would of accepted his qualifications, some will.
He will not need a great lot of qualifications to satisfy entry to a competent person scheme.
Maybe you are worrying to much.

 

[D Skelton]

I have to say, after all of this, have you not just asked the fella??? We're doing all of this guess work and yet none of us really know what's going on because you haven't asked the guy a single question relating to his business status, registration details, level of qualification or PL insurance details.

Where abouts in the South East are you?

 

[telectrix]

these schemes are just a money making racket. anyone who has done a 5 week course on basic electrical work ( a proper qualified spark has taken 3-4- years ) can join niceic, nappit. elecsa with just some basic knowledge of house wiring ( and , of course a wad of moola to join. currently around £400 -£500/year.

 

[TrappedinTheWeb]

I have to say, after all of this, have you not just asked the fella??? We're doing all of this guess work and yet none of us really know what's going on because you haven't asked the guy a single question relating to his business status, registration details, level of qualification or PL insurance details.

Where abouts in the South East are you?

I was waiting to get to speak to him today. Which I have now done. I am sorry for the guess work, but I originally posted in order to get a better understanding and what sorts of questions to ask, and to undersrtand the answers, and implications of the situation ahead of the conversation. And I was far better able to have that discussion as a result so thank you to you and others who have contributed.

I did not state where I am more specifically as I am conscious that my understanding is poor and I don't want to do anything that might identify the person if I have unintentionally misrepresented things. Plus I am not sure that was important to the question I posted.

He has confirmed that he is not registered, or part of a scheme or body, though has qualifications. He has said membership of a competent person shceme is something he has been planning to/thinking about doing and he has offered to get an NIC inspection of the work, if we let him continue, as part of his membership app. So we are considering this and will decide whether to proceed on that basis with assurances on other points raised here e.g. insurance.

So again thanks to all for your valuable help and especially for the wealth of straightforward non-technical advice.

 

[shanky887614]

I was waiting to get to speak to him today. Which I have now done. I am sorry for the guess work, but I originally posted in order to get a better understanding and what sorts of questions to ask, and to undersrtand the answers, and implications of the situation ahead of the conversation. And I was far better able to have that discussion as a result so thank you to you and others who have contributed.

I did not state where I am more specifically as I am conscious that my understanding is poor and I don't want to do anything that might identify the person if I have unintentionally misrepresented things. Plus I am not sure that was important to the question I posted.

He has confirmed that he is not registered, or part of a scheme or body, though has qualifications. He has said membership of a competent person shceme is something he has been planning to/thinking about doing and he has offered to get an NIC inspection of the work, if we let him continue, as part of his membership app. So we are considering this and will decide whether to proceed on that basis with assurances on other points raised here e.g. insurance.

So again thanks to all for your valuable help and especially for the wealth of straightforward non-technical advice.

to become registered with a scheme like the niceic you need to show them work like this.

what will happen is the niceic will notify for you on completion to building control.

the anual fee to join a scheme is not much different to the cost bc charge for one visit

 

[telectrix]

I was waiting to get to speak to him today. Which I have now done. I am sorry for the guess work, but I originally posted in order to get a better understanding and what sorts of questions to ask, and to undersrtand the answers, and implications of the situation ahead of the conversation. And I was far better able to have that discussion as a result so thank you to you and others who have contributed.

I did not state where I am more specifically as I am conscious that my understanding is poor and I don't want to do anything that might identify the person if I have unintentionally misrepresented things. Plus I am not sure that was important to the question I posted.

He has confirmed that he is not registered, or part of a scheme or body, though has qualifications. He has said membership of a competent person shceme is something he has been planning to/thinking about doing and he has offered to get an NIC inspection of the work, if we let him continue, as part of his membership app. So we are considering this and will decide whether to proceed on that basis with assurances on other points raised here e.g. insurance.

So again thanks to all for your valuable help and especially for the wealth of straightforward non-technical advice.

this is fairly common practice as, if he wants to join a scheme and notify through them, he will need to let them assess 1 or 2 jobs. once he's been accepted, then he has 30 days to notify the work.

 

[danf1966]

This register does not show members who are registered with Stroma so does not include ALL registered members.

stroma are on this register