Glands without shrouds?

[davesparks]

Personally I think A CW SWA gland looks a lot better in a finished job without the shroud than they do with it, especially when there are 8 RGM glands in a row next to it, but does any one know of any reason why not fitting the shroud would be a problem?
The gland is indoors in a dry and heated space so no worries about environmental considerations, and even if there were I think the shroud only ever serves to trap moisture around the gland which achieves a high IP rating on its own.

Obviously the shroud is useful for some people if they are not very good at actually fitting the gland properly, but I like to think I'm reasonably capable of fitting an SWA gland properly

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Can't see why not on a CW. I assume the MI is bare too?

 

[davesparks]

Can't see why not on a CW. I assume the MI is bare too?

Its bare everywhere it's visible, where its hidden/buried it's plastic coated and I've just stripped it from floor level upwards.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Neat, go with the bare SWA glands then. 50 years ago it might have been bare armour too. Can look very smart in context.

 

[davesparks]

Neat, go with the bare SWA glands then. 50 years ago it might have been bare armour too. Can look very smart in context.

This is a wooden garden building which has been painted a sort of tanning salon brown colour do the bare cooper looks good.

I've come across bare SWA in a few places, usually old theatres

 

[davesparks]

Interestingly the spec on BW glands from BiCon says that shrouds MAY be used, not that it's an essential part of the gland.

Now on to the next problem I have come up against!
Has anyone ever come across a situation where a normal pot wrench won't grip the pot because the top of the pot sits below the end of the threaded section of the gland?

It confused me a bit at first, but naturally got,over it once I'd worked out what was going on.

 

[Martin Kerr]

Are you not supposed to crimp the pot before tighting up the gland ?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Yes, annoying mismatch, IIRC there's a C-shaped piece of 2.5 copper lying in the bottom of the kit from exactly that situation. Have you tried the ratchet grip wrench, ZRP? I'm tempted to get one but it doesn't provide any means to guide the pot on so didn't find much advantage over pliers.

 

[davesparks]

Yes, annoying mismatch, IIRC there's a C-shaped piece of 2.5 copper lying in the bottom of the kit from exactly that situation. Have you tried the ratchet grip wrench, ZRP? I'm tempted to get one but it doesn't provide any means to guide the pot on so didn't find much advantage over pliers.

I tried a ZRP wrench once, it was useless and no better than a pair of grips as it is very hard to apply pressure in line with cable rather than the inevitable angle introduced by a tool which you grip to one side of the pot. I have seen in old books that they did once make some pliers with jaws shaped specifically to grip a pot.

My solution was quite simple though, take the crimping plate out of the crimper and turn it up the other way so that the teeth point upwards. Then you can gently clamp the pot in the crimper without deforming the top edge and screw it on easily. This way you can apply pressure directly in line with the cable the same as you would with the normal pot wrench.

It's the glands causing the issue in this case with an extra long thread section, I compared them to some others I had and some other pots.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

ATEX 02 enhanced type? All I did was put a C-shaped spacer around the cable in the back of the gland to hold the pot forward, and drop it off afterwards. I'm with you on the ZRP though, and I have a set of those pliers with the concave jaws although I don't think they were specifically an MI tool. Or had, as I can't think where they are now. With all the pushfit plumbing around these days, I'm surprised we don't have push-fit pots. Retaining claw ring in a groove and an optional o-ring.

 

[Lagentium]

I was told on my CompEx could that some Petroleum and chemical places don't fit shrouds because they hold water.

 

[shanky887614]

I tried a ZRP wrench once, it was useless and no better than a pair of grips as it is very hard to apply pressure in line with cable rather than the inevitable angle introduced by a tool which you grip to one side of the pot. I have seen in old books that they did once make some pliers with jaws shaped specifically to grip a pot.

My solution was quite simple though, take the crimping plate out of the crimper and turn it up the other way so that the teeth point upwards. Then you can gently clamp the pot in the crimper without deforming the top edge and screw it on easily. This way you can apply pressure directly in line with the cable the same as you would with the normal pot wrench.

It's the glands causing the issue in this case with an extra long thread section, I compared them to some others I had and some other pots.

ive got a set of pliers you speak of. i quite like the spinners as well

 

[davesparks]

ATEX 02 enhanced type? All I did was put a C-shaped spacer around the cable in the back of the gland to hold the pot forward, and drop it off afterwards. I'm with you on the ZRP though, and I have a set of those pliers with the concave jaws although I don't think they were specifically an MI tool. Or had, as I can't think where they are now. With all the pushfit plumbing around these days, I'm surprised we don't have push-fit pots. Retaining claw ring in a groove and an optional o-ring.

I doubt it, they were just standard RGM glands as far as I know, but I'll have a proper look tomorrow.
I'll have a look in my books later and see what I can find.
The idea of a push fit pot does ring a bell in the back of my mind for some reason, can't think where I'd have seen such a thing though.
Have you seen the wonderful terminations that they do for the American market? Wrap it in tape and heatshrink over it! Then just hope for the best [emoji106]

 

[Lucien Nunes]

They were being pushed over here for a while, I've never used them but I'm rather partial to adhesive-lined heatshrink, Thermoform trifurcating boots / trousers and the like, so they look quite tempting. Other than for temp rating which might limit the cable performance.

 

[davesparks]

http://www.pentairthermal.com/Images/EN-PyrotenaxPyropakTermination-IM-H58872_tcm432-34496.pdf

This American instruction leaflet shows a pot wrench with a grub screw in it, I've not seen that before. It gives me an idea though, I could easily drill and tap an M4 besa box screw into the side of mine tomorrow for the rest of the ends I need to do.

Also I've not seen an epoxy termination anywhere before.

 

[davesparks]

They were being pushed over here for a while, I've never used them but I'm rather partial to adhesive-lined heatshrink, Thermoform trifurcating boots / trousers and the like, so they look quite tempting. Other than for temp rating which might limit the cable performance.

I like the adhesive shrink, but only when it's required/suitable. I can't see that it has any advantage over a pot and seal termination on MI other than being maybe a little bit quicker and probably cheaper. But anyone installing MICC these days isn't likely to be on a penny pinching mission.

Though I have done some temporary creative bodges with self amalgamating tape to get things going until the right stuff can be delivered. So I guess a heatshrink option could be useful for the occasional repair, but then I think most of us could manage to cute our own without having to buy a special branded pack of heatshrink!

 

[ipf]

Do any of you remember those crimp on pots? It was a new system, then, that came out about 35 years ago from, I think, BICC.
It didn't really take off and didn't last very long. Can't remember too much about them but I think they pushed on and then a tool compressed the pot to the sheath.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

With the split collet in the back, and the gland with the inner knurled nut? Yes, and I've got the tool, but they were before my time really. I still have some cables in service on my patch with them on though.

drill and tap an M4 besa box screw into the side of mine tomorrow

Ah, you working round the weekend too? I'm still in the machine shop, about to grind to a halt for want of 2.5 bootlace ferrules. Wish I could get out a bit and bash some MI.

 

[shanky887614]

With the split collet in the back, and the gland with the inner knurled nut? Yes, and I've got the tool, but they were before my time really. I still have some cables in service on my patch with them on though.



Ah, you working round the weekend too? I'm still in the machine shop, about to grind to a halt for want of 2.5 bootlace ferrules. Wish I could get out a bit and bash some MI.

thats always anoying running out some ----- kicked my numbers box over in the week.

18 compartment box and it was full..... took fooking hours to sort.

2.5 are grey right?

ive ordered a load of pots and im going to order a load of numbers to keep some in stock on the van

 

[ipf]

With the split collet in the back, and the gland with the inner knurled nut? Yes, and I've got the tool, but they were before my time really. I still have some cables in service on my patch with them on though.



They're the ones...you forced the gland back with the tool and it compressed the split onto the sheath. I couldn't stand the things, to tell you the truth.

 

[davesparks]

With the split collet in the back, and the gland with the inner knurled nut? Yes, and I've got the tool, but they were before my time really. I still have some cables in service on my patch with them on though.



Ah, you working round the weekend too? I'm still in the machine shop, about to grind to a halt for want of 2.5 bootlace ferrules. Wish I could get out a bit and bash some MI.

I'll swap you all my 2.5 bootlaces for some RGM2L.5 cos I didn't order enough and I'm supposed to be finishing tomorrow.
I'm going to have to raid the box of miscellaneous MI bits in the shed in the morning.
I've already gone through the small stock of space rangers I've got but none of them go down small enough for 2L1.5

I think I might have to get a little creative tomorrow! If it was pots I was short of I old just solder the next size up onto the cable instead of threading on, but I'm not sure I'd get away with something like that on the compression ring.

 

[davesparks]

Do any of you remember those crimp on pots? It was a new system, then, that came out about 35 years ago from, I think, BICC.
It didn't really take off and didn't last very long. Can't remember too much about them but I think they pushed on and then a tool compressed the pot to the sheath.

Wedge pots I think they were called, I've ended up with one of the tools somewhere I think (like a pair of adapted mole grips)

 

[Lucien Nunes]

RGM2L.5?? I'd like those. Cable would be 4mm O/D and good for 10A. I wish they still made 250V 0.0015, smallest 2C+E wiring cable of all time, 0.187" O/D from memory.

took fooking hours to sort

Haha, at least you knew which was which by the numbers on them! I've recently done my S/S M3 screw kit which took a leap off the bench, Got bored about halfway through the washers and swiped the rest into the bin. My main ferrule kit is still on a job in Regent St. like my Big Box of Wagos and other really handy things, but I'm in the works at Hatfield, so been using up what I had in the trays here.

2.5 are grey right

En France bien sûr, aber in Deutschland sind sie blau.

Right, no more tri-rated today, Derek and I are packing in, quick beer and half an hour doing a schematic of what I'm going to make tomorrow. Thanks for the chat, not enough serious wiring tech talk around this place at times.

 

[davesparks]

Ok, I've got some 3L1 glands, do we think they'll work? 3L1 is 5.8mm nominal diameter and 2L1.5 is 5.7mm so I reckon the compression ring will , uhm, compress, enough?

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Wrap a turn of PVC round the cable to make up the difference

 

[davesparks]

RGM2L.5?? I'd like those. Cable would be 4mm O/D and good for 10A. I wish they still made 250V 0.0015, smallest 2C+E wiring cable of all time, 0.187" O/D from memory.

There seems to be a one missing from my post! 10A would do for most of the circuits but I think the ring would struggle a bit!

 

[davesparks]

Wrap a turn of PVC round the cable to make up the difference

Can't do that, I've only just taken the plastic sheath off, I can't go putting plastic back on!

 

[Lucien Nunes]

OK put a few strands of flex through and then jam the cable in. Or smoke paper or whatever. It's only plumbing so do whatever a plumber would do. Which brings us back to push-fit glands. Good night.

 

[shanky887614]

RGM2L.5?? I'd like those. Cable would be 4mm O/D and good for 10A. I wish they still made 250V 0.0015, smallest 2C+E wiring cable of all time, 0.187" O/D from memory.

Haha, at least you knew which was which by the numbers on them! I've recently done my S/S M3 screw kit which took a leap off the bench, Got bored about halfway through the washers and swiped the rest into the bin. My main ferrule kit is still on a job in Regent St. like my Big Box of Wagos and other really handy things, but I'm in the works at Hatfield, so been using up what I had in the trays here.

En France bien sûr, aber in Deutschland sind sie blau.

Right, no more tri-rated today, Derek and I are packing in, quick beer and half an hour doing a schematic of what I'm going to make tomorrow. Thanks for the chat, not enough serious wiring tech talk around this place at times.

i only use the colour coded ones, i wouldn't have attempted it if they were the white ones.

im not joking but i had an 18 compartment metal box that was half full emptied on the floor 6 pots completely full of mixed numbers before i started.

im going to slip a bill onto the guys desk for a full set of replacement numbers and ferrules. .75,1mm,1.5,2.5, rubbers and doubles XD there more expensive than you think

 

[davesparks]

My main ferrule kit is still on a job in Regent St. like my Big Box of Wagos and other really handy things, but I'm in the works at Hatfield, so been using up what I had in the trays here.

If I'd known you were in London we could have met up last week, I was in the criterion on Friday,

I'm possibly back there for a day or two next week too