LOSING MONEY WHEN WALKING AWAY FROM BAD JOBS

[Happychappy]

Hi everyone.

I'm an electrician in Leeds and i'd really appreciate your view on walking away from jobs when the existing install is not right.

For instance I had two days booked in for a CU change and rewiring of some spotlights. I always start a CU change by doing a condition report first on all circuit attached. Within 10 minutes of testing I knew I was going to have a bad day! The kitchen lights were wired to the 32A upstairs socket circuit and no fused spur protecting the smaller cable, I had a neutral to earth fault on the lighting circuit, there were multiple DIY alterations, there were multiple spurs taken off the ring without being fused down and the list went on!!

At this point I advised the customer there were multiple issues and I would be unable to fit the consumer or rewire the spotlights.

I advised the customer that the property needs rewiring, to which I got the standard response of 'well it works so I will just leave it as it is'.

This was yesterday and I am now sat at home today with losing a day and a half's pay with only being able to charge for the condition report.

This for me is happening way too often with not being able to carry out planned works due to the poor existing install.

I would really appreciate knowing how everyone else deals with these situations? Do you do the same as me and walk away meaning you are constantly loosing money or do you just do the work and leave the customer with a dangerous situation report or something to that affect?

Would love to hear you thoughts and opinions on this please.

 

[Happychappy]

If I can instantly see that there is no water bond and the customer refuses to have one (for the reasons previously stated) then no more investigation or any testing is necessary (I think you may have quoted the wrong person).

If it was just remedial work then i think the customer would have been fine with that but there were too many issues that came up when inspecting the property. I was only happy to recommend a rewire which the customer wasn't in a position to do.

 

[cloverman]

Like some others have stated, I always do a few checks prior to giving a quote to established at that least the basics are covered and also have it written on all quotes that it is subject to the existing installation being fit for purpose, that testing/investigation may find major electrical installation faults that will be quoted for separately.
I will normally put right small issues free of charge, however will inform the customer of these beforehand so that they are aware of work that I am completing.
I think in most cases if you explain the situation and gain the competence of the customer then it won't be a problem, there is without doubt always going to the odd one, but in all fairness when I first go and look at the work required I can pick up on if they are reliable to have the extra done or not.
I have walked away from work when they say that they aren't prepared to pay for putting right the issues I find on first visit for quote and make a point to them that any decent electrician will tell them exactly the same as me

 

[richy3333]

My point is that the fundamentals are wrong if Earthing and bonding aren't there - and I suspect this is what the NICEIC were relaying to you.

Totally agree. Still is quoted at 132.16 in BBB

 

[johnduffell]

The other issue about no bonding would be that the owner might feel that everything is ok now, and everything looks new, whereas with the old installation in place it keep the pressure on to have it done properly as everything still looks rough. You also never know if the person is just tarting it up to sell therefore leaving the new owner with a much less obvious danger.
Although in my opinion adding an up front rcd would probably be the happy medium if the regs were to allow it

 

[peterhyper]

The other issue about no bonding would be that the owner might feel that everything is ok now, and everything looks new, whereas with the old installation in place it keep the pressure on to have it done properly as everything still looks rough. You also never know if the person is just tarting it up to sell therefore leaving the new owner with a much less obvious danger.
Although in my opinion adding an up front rcd would probably be the happy medium if the regs were to allow it

The lady in question had spent a small fortune doing her house up and having lovely ceramic floor tiles fitted throughout the ground floor and I very much doubt she was selling it, and I'm sure she will have still have the same unsafe set up.

I am not specifically criticising the NICEIC because that's how it is, but regardless of what regs people point to, carrying out a full inspection of all circuits, fitting RCDs, upgrading the tails, main earth conductor, bonding the gas etc has to better than doing absolutely nothing because the water can't be bonded.

Let's hope doctors don't adopt the same criteria if I have a serious road accident (they could have revived me, but they wouldn't have been able to save my little finger so they let me die because they couldn't fix everything).

 

[Happychappy]

The lady in question had spent a small fortune doing her house up and having lovely ceramic floor tiles fitted throughout the ground floor and I very much doubt she was selling it, and I'm sure she will have still have the same unsafe set up.

I am not specifically criticising the NICEIC because that's how it is, but regardless of what regs people point to, carrying out a full inspection of all circuits, fitting RCDs, upgrading the tails, main earth conductor, bonding the gas etc has to better than doing absolutely nothing because the water can't be bonded.

Let's hope doctors don't adopt the same criteria if I have a serious road accident (they could have revived me, but they wouldn't have been able to save my little finger so they let me die because they couldn't fix everything).

I'm 100% with you on this one. This needs to be changed.

 

[johnduffell]

carrying out a full inspection of all circuits, fitting RCDs, upgrading the tails, main earth conductor, bonding the gas etc has to better than doing absolutely nothing because the water can't be bonded

True but there are so many ways to think about it. Maybe 9 out of 10 customers who refuse bonding would accept once they are refused to have any electrical work done whatsoever by 3 different electricians. Whereas if all 10 had the rest of the work done then none of them would bother. I think there's an element of bigger picture benefits as well, not saying it's always right but it's nothing like doctors there's no British standard for a human body

 

[Happychappy]

The lady in question had spent a small fortune doing her house up and having lovely ceramic floor tiles fitted throughout the ground floor and I very much doubt she was selling it, and I'm sure she will have still have the same unsafe set up.

I am not specifically criticising the NICEIC because that's how it is, but regardless of what regs people point to, carrying out a full inspection of all circuits, fitting RCDs, upgrading the tails, main earth conductor, bonding the gas etc has to better than doing absolutely nothing because the water can't be bonded.

Let's hope doctors don't adopt the same criteria if I have a serious road accident (they could have revived me, but they wouldn't have been able to save my little finger so they let me die because they couldn't fix everything).

I'm 100% with you on this one. This needs to be changed.

True but there are so many ways to think about it. Maybe 9 out of 10 customers who refuse bonding would accept once they are refused to have any electrical work done whatsoever by 3 different electricians. Whereas if all 10 had the rest of the work done then none of them would bother. I think there's an element of bigger picture benefits as well, not saying it's always right but it's nothing like doctors there's no British standard for a human body

That is a fair point.

 

[richy3333]

The water can be bonded. Its just the potential customer doesn't like any of your options. Earthing and bonding come first, then everything else?

 

[ferg]

Get a plumber to fit an insulating section where it enters the building?

 

[Happychappy]

Get a plumber to fit an insulating section where it enters the building?

Now thats a really good idea I'll remember!!

 

[johnduffell]

Get a plumber to fit an insulating section where it enters the building?

what a genius, now that's what I call lateral thinking!