How not to standard is this rewire?

[Baddegg]

Well he does now - he said he’ll come sort it Monday but was trying to talk himself out of it on the phone - NAPIT is who hes registered with

Have you seen his accreditation? I’m with napit and they are quite stringent….but if he is I’d recommend you contact them

 

[Lucien Nunes]

i think 20A radials x3 is a bit mean for a house, especially a kitchen.

I think it could be quite a bold choice considering the ease with which a 32A socket circuit could have been installed

My thoughts exactly. If the dishwasher or washing machine is heating, putting on the microwave and kettle will push the circuit into overload. OK it probably won't trip, but I bet the OP was not expecting to get, as part of a rewire, a circuit that is likely to be overloaded. If the previous circuit was a ring, this is a downgrade to save one run of cable and a bit of testing time.

Agree with the above comment that the CU doesn't look bad at all and suggests the person who did it is competent. But the devil is in the detail. Untidy wiring doesn't in itself cause fires, incorrectly torqued terminals do, and we can't see that from here.

It is possible, and I have seen this first hand, that there was one less-competent person on the team who let the standard down and the best of it is fine. Also that the said less competent person tried to hide his mistakes from the boss, hence possibly a hidden terminal block where he ran a cable in too short etc. Bare live cable ends smack of someone in a hurry who didn't check what was being terminated where.

 

[cireland]

Also being picky, looks like damage to the sheath of the 6mm.

 

[DannyC94]

My thoughts exactly. If the dishwasher or washing machine is heating, putting on the microwave and kettle will push the circuit into overload. OK it probably won't trip, but I bet the OP was not expecting to get, as part of a rewire, a circuit that is likely to be overloaded. If the previous circuit was a ring, this is a downgrade to save one run of cable and a bit of testing time.

Agree with the above comment that the CU doesn't look bad at all and suggests the person who did it is competent. But the devil is in the detail. Untidy wiring doesn't in itself cause fires, incorrectly torqued terminals do, and we can't see that from here.

It is possible, and I have seen this first hand, that there was one less-competent person on the team who let the standard down and the best of it is fine. Also that the said less competent person tried to hide his mistakes from the boss, hence possibly a hidden terminal block where he ran a cable in too short etc. Bare live cable ends smack of someone in a hurry who didn't check what was being terminated where.

Could be the case - although when I phoned the boss he told me that these (in the picture) were allowed anywhere as long as they are taped up? This one obvs isn’t taped up though.
Also, do metal back boxes for the sockets have to be earthed out still?
A mate has said he needs to give me a building regs cert, do you know if this is right?

 

[cireland]

Could be the case - although when I phoned the boss he told me that these (in the picture) were allowed anywhere as long as they are taped up? This one obvs isn’t taped up though.
Also, do metal back boxes for the sockets have to be earthed out still?
A mate has said he needs to give me a building regs cert, do you know if this is right?

They can be used if they are in a box of some kind with strain relief, and they also have to be accessible.
I think someone mentioned this previously.
Still pretty poor using them on a rewire. Maybe some at the switches for unused neutrals but that should mostly be all.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

these (in the picture) were allowed anywhere as long as they are taped up?

Not true. as above, they need to be mounted in a suitable box with the cables anchored, and accessible for maintenance not boarded over. And the earth is not connected here which defies any sensible explanation and could result in some fittings not being earthed hence dangerous.

Does anyone think this looks like a mixture of 1.5 & 2.5 sqmm? What circuit configuration would warrant that, in this particular installation?

 

[brianmoooore]

They also have a maximum rated current, which may or may not be exceeded in your case.
The one in the pic also appears to have cables of different sizes connected to it, which is 'curious' to say the least
'

 

[freddo]

I believe someone called out a BG screefix special cu earlier in the thread?

What do I win?! As is often the way with this type of thread they even left the unused MCBs in place instead of fitting blanks.

It's poor design to put the upstairs sockets and upstairs lights on the same RCD, and the same downstairs. Then again it's poor using a dual RCD consumer unit. With the Price of RCBOs being so low now I haven't fitted a dual RCD consumer unit in a very long time. It's much more convenient for the customer to lose 1 circuit during a fault, rather than half the house.

I don't see any AFDDs there so I'm not sure why the AFDD test button box has been ticked.

Again, there are only 2 RCDs to test so no reason not to fill in the tripping times, N/A is not a suitable entry.

He hasn't filled in what number of live conductors there are, again entering N/A. The supply fuse is unlikely to have a breaking capacity of 100KA. The main switch is a 60947-3 not 60947 type b (whatever that is). He has put N/A for earthing conductor and bonding conductor continuity checks, both types of conductor are present so they should have been checked and both boxes ticked.

He has ticked that he has checked parallel or switched alternative sources of supply, yet this installation has neither.

He has ticked that he has checked prosumer's electrical installation, again this doesn't apply to this installation.

He has ticked that he has checked a number of different items in the Essential Tests section several there will not be applicable and several he has ticked as carried out have no results entered in the schedule of test results section.

The certificate is pretty much worthless (except as evidence in court!)

Can I kick off with a design question? What do we think about 20A for the kitchen with no separate appliance circuit(s)?

Think of all the money saved in cable by not connecting the last socket back to the MCB! I would be OK with the house sockets being on 20A, but the kitchen would be pushing it, unless it only has 1 large appliance.

As there are no ring finals that also means a lot less tests need to be carried out, so no excuses for not doing insulation resistance and RCD tests.

 

[cireland]

Main fuse is down as a BS88 giving a breaking capacity of 33KA

 

[DannyC94]

What do I win?! As is often the way with this type of thread they even left the unused MCBs in place instead of fitting blanks.

It's poor design to put the upstairs sockets and upstairs lights on the same RCD, and the same downstairs. Then again it's poor using a dual RCD consumer unit. With the Price of RCBOs being so low now I haven't fitted a dual RCD consumer unit in a very long time. It's much more convenient for the customer to lose 1 circuit during a fault, rather than half the house.

I don't see any AFDDs there so I'm not sure why the AFDD test button box has been ticked.

Again, there are only 2 RCDs to test so no reason not to fill in the tripping times, N/A is not a suitable entry.

He hasn't filled in what number of live conductors there are, again entering N/A. The supply fuse is unlikely to have a breaking capacity of 100KA. The main switch is a 60947-3 not 60947 type b (whatever that is). He has put N/A for earthing conductor and bonding conductor continuity checks, both types of conductor are present so they should have been checked and both boxes ticked.

He has ticked that he has checked parallel or switched alternative sources of supply, yet this installation has neither.

He has ticked that he has checked prosumer's electrical installation, again this doesn't apply to this installation.

He has ticked that he has checked a number of different items in the Essential Tests section several there will not be applicable and several he has ticked as carried out have no results entered in the schedule of test results section.

The certificate is pretty much worthless (except as evidence in court!)


Think of all the money saved in cable by not connecting the last socket back to the MCB! I would be OK with the house sockets being on 20A, but the kitchen would be pushing it, unless it only has 1 large appliance.

As there are no ring finals that also means a lot less tests need to be carried out, so no excuses for not doing insulation resistance and RCD tests.

A mate of mine has said he doesn’t think dual RCD boards with a type ac RCD comply with regulations anymore? Do you know if this is the case?
What do you think my next steps are? He’s coming back tomorrow to look at what’s going on with the live wire & mechanical fittings…

 

[Risteard]

A mate of mine has said he doesn’t think dual RCD boards with a type ac RCD comply with regulations anymore? Do you know if this is the case?
What do you think my next steps are? He’s coming back tomorrow to look at what’s going on with the live wire & mechanical fittings…

Your photos show Type A (not Type AC) RCCBs.

 

[westward10]

What has happened to the cpcs at those block connectors, just twisted together?
I would not be letting that individual touch that installation anymore in fact tell them you are seeking legal advice on how to proceed and this is exactly what you should do.

 

[timhoward]

What has happened to the cpcs at those block connectors, just twisted together?

I was just going to ask exactly the same thing, it looks a little as if they have been cut off...

 

[timhoward]

Well he does now - he said he’ll come sort it Monday but was trying to talk himself out of it on the phone - NAPIT is who hes registered with

Is his NAPIT number on the certificate? If so you can check it online here:

NAPIT Member Search

search.napit.org.uk

(Verify Operatives)

 

[Baddegg]

Not true. as above, they need to be mounted in a suitable box with the cables anchored, and accessible for maintenance not boarded over. And the earth is not connected here which defies any sensible explanation and could result in some fittings not being earthed hence dangerous.

Does anyone think this looks like a mixture of 1.5 & 2.5 sqmm? What circuit configuration would warrant that, in this particular installation?

First time I looked I wasn’t sure the cable on the right wasn’t 1.5?

 

[Baddegg]

I was just going to ask exactly the same thing, it looks a little as if they have been cut off...
View attachment 101534

Good Tim!

 

[Baddegg]

Makes you wonder this thread, as when I swapped from stroma to Napit I was put right through the mill on my first annual…..how the hell has this clown done it?

He must’ve shown em someone else’s job

 

[westward10]

One pic they appear to be twisted together maybe they thought you just use them for stripping it then chop them off.

 

[westward10]

I was just going to ask exactly the same thing, it looks a little as if they have been cut off...
View attachment 101534

That same pic the others look twisted together.

 

[timhoward]

That same pic the others look twisted together.

It could be that the 1.0 is on its way to a cheap downlight, with the usual cpc problems that cheap downlights come with.