Neutrals at switches

[Engineer54]

Well, ....seeing as your hiding all the other connections anyway, why not?? Neutrals at switch points when there not needed is a nonsence!!

 

[aptsys]

Not really.

 

[Adam W]

The idea is not to get a neutral at the switch, rather not to have a live looped in elsewhere.

 

[morph]

i nearly always do it this way
better for most modern lights that only take tiny cables , looping at the light on a modern light fitting nearly always means a j/b which is poor practice
at the switch all connections are available and easy to work on.

 

[glasgowbiker42]

the loop in system never came to prominence till the early eighties before that the neutrals were taken to the light switches or junction box's i.e. if a house was split level jou had a j.b in the upstairs landing servicing the downstairs lights and one in the attic for upstairs. Benefit is you only have one cable at each light fitting point.Another method is to use 10A D.P switches i.e. MK K4876WHI.

 

[oldtimer]

I have never seen double pole (2 plate ?) switching on a light circuit but I have seen a neutral passing through a lightswitch due to the way it was wired years ago ie fuseboard at low level conduit out to a 4x4 in the hall and a conduit to each light point via the switch and with single cables the neutral passed through but with T&E you tend to see a neutral joint but in this case someone has decided to double pole switch the lights.

On other thing to point out power sockets and fuse spurs are beginning to be double poled switching and when you think of it this is a good thing if you have a neutral to earth fault downstram of the switch/socket and theres a RCD involved as well

 

[Des 56]

If there's no need for a neutral at the switch, then No i don't like it.

Strong views on this subject
Only picked out this quote just to emphasise the word like

Like it or dis like it ?
I have no issue with either method,they have advantages and dis advantages

Like is not in the Brb
If you approve of one over the other,what reason can you give that is backed up by the book ?
If you cant give a book reason there is no right or wrong way

 

[Electricalserv]

Loop in system to ceiling rose everytime for me. New fittings can be connector blocked at rose which is essentially what a ceiling rose is. Cables are accessible then and a JB above ceiling is not needed.

 

[Richard]

Can't see a problem with it at all, and have wired 100's of new propertys this way! If Ikea and co start designing their fittings to be slightly more accomdating to receiving 3 cables then maybe i'd think twice!

 

[Engineer54]

Let me put it this way then, .... I wouldn't and haven't allowed it on any of my projects in the past, and wont allow it on my next project!!! If a neutral is needed for outside lights and the like, fine i have no-problem with that, but i do have a problem with using the switch points as junction boxes as a wiring system!!! No Way Ho Say!!!!!

Only ever seen this tried once on a project, and that was on a stand alone smallish building on a large shopping centre complex. In this case the building was very much like a normal house build, and using T&E wiring methods. Only caught it after a good 2/3rds of the first fix had been installed. Just the same, ...it all came out!!!

 

[kw1980]

I have always wired light circuits this way, its far easier to terminate imo. Plus i once saw a guy wire loop in at a bathroom light, which also had a shaver point, a timer fan and a mirror light, then what a mess he made trying to terminate 7 t&e or 3c cables at a light fitting. Im equally at ease working on any system, loop in at lights, neutrals at switches or a junction box but if im new wiring definitely take the neutral to the switch, also makes it easier for any future work as you only need to run one cable to pick up a feed and neutral.

 

[johnboy6083]

i dont often do domestic, but when i have, its been loop in method. a bloke i sometimes sub for, wires all his jobs with neutrals at the switchs, and for him, its easie. i would be happy doing either to be honest.

 

[Gravid]

I did a new build last year, in the whole house the only rooms with ceiling lights had downlights the rest where 5A skts or wall lights, so the whole house was switch fed. All connections accessible and no hidden JB's for the next man. Had they wanted centre lights would have done loop in.
IMO being for or against a perfectly acceptable way of wiring lights is ridiculous, the way i see it which ever works best and uses less cable/jb's/connectors etc gets my vote.

 

[Phil]

i have done it both ways and tbh don`t mind either. when i did do it at the switch i can tell you it was not through laziness as suggested in a previous post. if there is room for it at the switch then why not? i have put up more than enough awkward fittings that i would have rather had the loop at the switch instead of the fittings. so for me either way i don`t mind

 

[Engineer54]

I'm getting to understand the meaning of Domestic installers now!!!!

 

[RWJ]

I won't mention 6241 singles straight to switch method....... Seen in many offices

 

[topquark]

If I play devils advocate here, you don't need a loop out of either line or neutral at the ceiling rose, it's done for convenience.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I've yet to come across anyone who can give a valid reason why a neutral at a switch is bad practice,other than "I dont like it"...??

Engineer54...give us a valid ELECTRICAL reason why a neutral at a switch is bad practice.....(and PLEASE not just because it is not needed)....a permanant live is not needed at the light either,but it will be there.

 

[Guest 004]

well I was always taught that it was a no no, and although there is no regulation against, I consider it bad practice, connector blocks should not be used in switches. Even if you were to use double pole switches, it would not help with 2 way and intermediate's.

In my 25 years of sparking, I can honestly say that I have never seen it.

I think the difference is having a decent apprenticeship where you was taught what was what, and not what these new kids on the block get taught at college today, then go out into the big world of sparking without any practical experience.

Reminds me of something I saw about 6 years ago working on the CTRL for Drakes (Emcor). basically it was a conduit system that had been 3 plated in singles, and the switch line and feed had been taped together as if it was a twin and earth to go down to the switch, ( brown and blue had been used, and the blue had brown tape on it), and was just so much easier to 2 plate it.

Made me laugh no end, as the guy who did it was always saying 'I am the mutts nuts'

alright Colin you still out there mate?

 

[morph]

knowing the property will have spots and looping in the light fitting is short sighted
knowing the property will have all pendants , looping in the switch is not needed but could still be done.
looping in the switch with a 3 gang switch is economical on cable too one feed and three switch lines
pros and cons both ways at the end of the day, i happen to think it works very well in a domestic situation