P
PEG
That was fiesty! the last time folk battled that hard over the earth,rubber boats were bouncing off Japanese whalers...:45:
NICEIC Certification Scheme NICEIC’s Connection magazine (using CPC as a live conductor)?
B
bigbaddave
Ahh man... have i missed the crack
C
chilliwilly
GLENNSPARK.
And I will carry on wiring radials in hopscotch fashion serving more than one floor and one room, and when the rating of lighting accessories is improved to match the rating of power outlets, I will also include wall lights and maybe even centre lights on the same circuit. So there still will be lights and power in the event of a fault on one floor and in one room. And watch this space, this will become the norm across Europe including the UK.
I will carry on using one or more earth spikes to obtain a ze reading or as a permanent method of providing a TT installation in the absence of a main earth. No matter what the type of supply, and what the other bloke says.
I'm glad that you remembered (but then again how could someone like you forget?), but you will also remember that I didn't and won't stand corrected about my methods by you or anyone else who dare not leave their comfort zone of limited experience.
Only if and when my customers, the consultants that I work with, and the niccy ever have any issues with my methods, only then will I stand corrected. After all why should I stand corrected to the likes of you? They are the ones who use my services and have done for a few years, and are coming back to using them since starting up again.
And don't worry, in the unlikely event of any of my customers ever having the misfortune of phoning you, especially domestic ones, there will be as fitted drawings present along with the circuit schedule. So you won't look too stupid not knowing how to extend a radial circuit that covers both floors and including bedrooms. But then again summing you up, you would probably walk away and tell them it needs a rewire because it doesn't have ring mains, and has one or more earth spike because there is a TN supply with no main earth because the area board/DNO won't come and connect one.
But you can always tell them that the cpc in the twin and earths within the fabric of the building and elsewhere, mean that they can drive a nail into them and still be safe no matter how its wired. As safe as the MPs daughter who allegedly were killed from driving a nail through a cable and we all know the rest.
EDIT: Another outburst like that will get your account removed.
And I will carry on wiring radials in hopscotch fashion serving more than one floor and one room, and when the rating of lighting accessories is improved to match the rating of power outlets, I will also include wall lights and maybe even centre lights on the same circuit. So there still will be lights and power in the event of a fault on one floor and in one room. And watch this space, this will become the norm across Europe including the UK.
I will carry on using one or more earth spikes to obtain a ze reading or as a permanent method of providing a TT installation in the absence of a main earth. No matter what the type of supply, and what the other bloke says.
I'm glad that you remembered (but then again how could someone like you forget?), but you will also remember that I didn't and won't stand corrected about my methods by you or anyone else who dare not leave their comfort zone of limited experience.
Only if and when my customers, the consultants that I work with, and the niccy ever have any issues with my methods, only then will I stand corrected. After all why should I stand corrected to the likes of you? They are the ones who use my services and have done for a few years, and are coming back to using them since starting up again.
And don't worry, in the unlikely event of any of my customers ever having the misfortune of phoning you, especially domestic ones, there will be as fitted drawings present along with the circuit schedule. So you won't look too stupid not knowing how to extend a radial circuit that covers both floors and including bedrooms. But then again summing you up, you would probably walk away and tell them it needs a rewire because it doesn't have ring mains, and has one or more earth spike because there is a TN supply with no main earth because the area board/DNO won't come and connect one.
But you can always tell them that the cpc in the twin and earths within the fabric of the building and elsewhere, mean that they can drive a nail into them and still be safe no matter how its wired. As safe as the MPs daughter who allegedly were killed from driving a nail through a cable and we all know the rest.
EDIT: Another outburst like that will get your account removed.
Last edited by a moderator:
D
Darkwood
Now now boys play nice or you won't be able to stay out late 
.
Chilly to note suggested language as such will see you banned its a public forum for all ages and experiences and just because your having anger management issues doesn't mean you have to show them on here.. there is more than one way to make your point that don't flout the rules of the forum.
We all have different working methods but follow the same set of rules although some specifics of the regs can be interpreted different ways.
A few pointers here ....the outer sheath of T7E provides environmental protection and shouldn't be implied that its their for insulation or for mechanical protection ...it is there for environmental protection of which affords it a level of mechanical protection and insulation amongst other things like UV, chemical and oil resistance but as the amount of this protection goes it could be a very low level hence its misleading to say its their for that particular strength.
Also the earth in a T & E is bare IMHO to increase the chances of a fault occurring if the outer sheath and inner insulation is breached... Water ingress is then more likely to create a fault, overheating of the cable is more likely to short out before a fire situe' as the insulation perishes it is adjacent to a bare earth, and also the most widely used domestic wire it brings down costs as their is no real need to insulate it at extra cost when you opposition undercut you on price and leave it un-insulated. Yes it can be breached/damaged without faulting and creating a potentially dangerous situe but the regs are in place to keep such issues to a minimum they cant be totally irradicated
but the chances of it occurring can.
.Chilly to note suggested language as such will see you banned its a public forum for all ages and experiences and just because your having anger management issues doesn't mean you have to show them on here.. there is more than one way to make your point that don't flout the rules of the forum.
We all have different working methods but follow the same set of rules although some specifics of the regs can be interpreted different ways.
A few pointers here ....the outer sheath of T7E provides environmental protection and shouldn't be implied that its their for insulation or for mechanical protection ...it is there for environmental protection of which affords it a level of mechanical protection and insulation amongst other things like UV, chemical and oil resistance but as the amount of this protection goes it could be a very low level hence its misleading to say its their for that particular strength.
Also the earth in a T & E is bare IMHO to increase the chances of a fault occurring if the outer sheath and inner insulation is breached... Water ingress is then more likely to create a fault, overheating of the cable is more likely to short out before a fire situe' as the insulation perishes it is adjacent to a bare earth, and also the most widely used domestic wire it brings down costs as their is no real need to insulate it at extra cost when you opposition undercut you on price and leave it un-insulated. Yes it can be breached/damaged without faulting and creating a potentially dangerous situe but the regs are in place to keep such issues to a minimum they cant be totally irradicated
but the chances of it occurring can.
S
stuartcourt
Time to close this thread I believe nothing constructive here
there is a simpler explanation as to why the cpc in T/E is not insulated. the cable is first constucted as twin, with a small aperture down the middle for the lenght of the cable, usually 100m. now, if the cpc was insulated, how in hell could the manufacturers push it all in?
B
Badged01
Simple Tel, just make the hole bigger!
S
SPARTYKUS
S
Spudnik
Well, just to add to the debate, i was taught to never use the cpc (in flex) as a live conductor, which i am most happy with.
As for the CPC in twin and earth, i understand the reasons for it being un sheathed, is that its not a current carrying conductor, plus the cost of manufacture.
And i also seem to remember that any cable should have an earth conductor present, and connected, but obviously not to DI accessories.
As for the CPC in twin and earth, i understand the reasons for it being un sheathed, is that its not a current carrying conductor, plus the cost of manufacture.
And i also seem to remember that any cable should have an earth conductor present, and connected, but obviously not to DI accessories.
C
chopper76
NICEIC’s Connection magazine (using CPC as a live conductor)?
You can buy t/e flat cable with the cpc sheathed, just not common place
You can buy t/e flat cable with the cpc sheathed, just not common place
G
GLENNSPARK
no....think 2 core flex
fixed wiring systems to have a CPC available at every point on the installation
K
Knobhead
So what set off as a sensible thread about something that is inherently dangerous has degenerated in to personal slanging matches.
The ECA should be lined up and shot for publishing the article in the first place. It will convince the fly by nights it’s safe to use the CPC of T&E as a live conductor.
Is this is the way things are going within the trade? Dangerous short cuts legitimised by an organisation that should be upholding standards.
But there’s no profit in (safe) standards, so what the hell.
Just think on when you get a belt off the earth in a two way switch.
The ECA should be lined up and shot for publishing the article in the first place. It will convince the fly by nights it’s safe to use the CPC of T&E as a live conductor.
Is this is the way things are going within the trade? Dangerous short cuts legitimised by an organisation that should be upholding standards.
But there’s no profit in (safe) standards, so what the hell.
Just think on when you get a belt off the earth in a two way switch.
G
GLENNSPARK
come on tony...it would be connected L1/L2.....wouldn`t it
- - - Updated - - -
and oversleaved (identification of conductors) at all terminations
i can send you the article if you want....
K
Knobhead
Glenn, I've seen it. Don’t even try to convince me it’s a good or even acceptable practice.
As I said, it will get misinterpreted by the fly by nights as perfectly acceptable to use the CPC of T&E as a live condutor.
The article should never have been published. It will now be taken as gospel.
As I said, it will get misinterpreted by the fly by nights as perfectly acceptable to use the CPC of T&E as a live condutor.
The article should never have been published. It will now be taken as gospel.
G
GLENNSPARK
i would never condone this....but if they cant see the difference between a bit of flex...and a flat twin....then theres something wrong...
the correct cable with enough cores should be selected anyway....
K
Knobhead
I’m not asking you to condone it.
There’s something very wrong with this industry.
Scams sanctioning poorly qualified people to trade as an electrician is the main one.
Then the Gurus (scams) of the industry actively encouraging poor practice is another. (This farce).
Should I continue the list?
There’s something very wrong with this industry.
Scams sanctioning poorly qualified people to trade as an electrician is the main one.
Then the Gurus (scams) of the industry actively encouraging poor practice is another. (This farce).
Should I continue the list?
G
GLENNSPARK
whats wrong here tony is the fundemental lack of understanding about even the basics by many going round claiming their an electrician:
The complete disregard of safety (for themselves and others)....
the pernicious `schemes` that accept any old guy for £££ just off the cuff....
the persistace of these `be an electrician in 5 weeks` outshoppers....
training centres selling `bolt on courses` to those that are not ready for £££....
johnny turk setting his stall out here (with state sanctioned encouragement)....
E
Engineer54
Originally Posted by chilliwilly
And I will carry on wiring radials in hopscotch fashion serving more than one floor and one room, and when the rating of lighting accessories is improved to match the rating of power outlets, I will also include wall lights and maybe even centre lights on the same circuit. So there still will be lights and power in the event of a fault on one floor and in one room. And watch this space, this will become the norm across Europe including the UK.
Must have been totally Brainwashed from the time he spent in the States!! God help us all, if he is even remotely right!! lol!!
O
Outspoken
I was always taught that you never ever use the cpc as a live conductor, if you require a second live conductor you simply replace the cable with 4 cores...we are not talking about huge costs here, most fans only have about 30cm of cable attached at best and if replacing this busts your profits or is too hard for you then you should have your brain removed completely and become a plumber.
ECA = Electrical Conmen Association
NICEIC = Do it our way because we are gods you little oiks..but the rules don't apply to us.
JIB = Owned jointly by the above so needs no explanation
JTL = most useless people to ever attempt to train a prospective sparky
I would accept that my opinion will carry little weight as I have only been doing the job for 30 years come September!
Jim
ECA = Electrical Conmen Association
NICEIC = Do it our way because we are gods you little oiks..but the rules don't apply to us.
JIB = Owned jointly by the above so needs no explanation
JTL = most useless people to ever attempt to train a prospective sparky
I would accept that my opinion will carry little weight as I have only been doing the job for 30 years come September!
Jim
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