V
VMan
I think you have done all you can for now. it may be worth trying MCS in the morning, they maybe working this weekend..just maybe...
- Mar 11, 2010
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- Electrical Engineer (Qualified)
omg, they sound clueless, just get that FIT in m8 what ever it takes, sort the rest out after, even if you have to pay someone else to re-fit the array, is the scaffold still up, if so ask the scaffold compnay if you can have it for a bit longer, then get the firm back, if they refuse, dont pay and use the money to have it re-done
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mjanesuk
Vman,
Just spoken to a very nice man at British Gas, (Nabeed in Manchester -if you are having problems), he confirmed that the MCS cert number is the main thing, not the details. They can be ammended later if necessary as long as the cert number remains the same.
Apparently the process is that in 3 weeks (due to backlog) BG will send a contract or ask for revisions if things are not correct - either way you still qualify for the higher rate. He also checked that my email had arrived yesterday and advised that everyone should do this and they are happy to do it whist you wait on the phone.
Bear in mind also that if you are not BG customer they also require photo ID as well as the FIT form, invoice and MCS cert.
Feeling much better now.
Only the poor install left to sort now.
Martin
Just spoken to a very nice man at British Gas, (Nabeed in Manchester -if you are having problems), he confirmed that the MCS cert number is the main thing, not the details. They can be ammended later if necessary as long as the cert number remains the same.
Apparently the process is that in 3 weeks (due to backlog) BG will send a contract or ask for revisions if things are not correct - either way you still qualify for the higher rate. He also checked that my email had arrived yesterday and advised that everyone should do this and they are happy to do it whist you wait on the phone.
Bear in mind also that if you are not BG customer they also require photo ID as well as the FIT form, invoice and MCS cert.
Feeling much better now.
Only the poor install left to sort now.
Martin
V
VMan
Think on the bright side, you have a cleared invoice even tho you owe then 3K, tell the company you paid it and you have proof of payment (the invoice) 
- then see if they sort out your install for you.
- then see if they sort out your install for you.
S
sambotc
Keep the £3k and pay someone who actually gives a ---- the chance of a days work in january when they need it most. The other lot don't sound bothered so leave them to it.
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mjanesuk
Good point VMan.
I suppose I then need to see what the best option for securing the K2 brackets is (only one fixing at the moment). K2 say drill an extra hole to fit onto the flimsey 37mm rafters.
Also how to arrange the panels.
The idea I had which they have gone with, but seemingly without any thought, was a portrait row of 10 on the upper part of the roof, and a lower row of 6 in landscape (on a second MPPT on the SMA 4000TL-20) to account for the occasional end of year shading from a tree, that clips the gutter and 1st 4 ft of the roofline. Roof is 12m wide so no space issue.
They have attached both rows to horizontal rails, so the lower row are all attached on their short side. I think SRE thought this was an issue - any thoughts?
I suppose I then need to see what the best option for securing the K2 brackets is (only one fixing at the moment). K2 say drill an extra hole to fit onto the flimsey 37mm rafters.
Also how to arrange the panels.
The idea I had which they have gone with, but seemingly without any thought, was a portrait row of 10 on the upper part of the roof, and a lower row of 6 in landscape (on a second MPPT on the SMA 4000TL-20) to account for the occasional end of year shading from a tree, that clips the gutter and 1st 4 ft of the roofline. Roof is 12m wide so no space issue.
They have attached both rows to horizontal rails, so the lower row are all attached on their short side. I think SRE thought this was an issue - any thoughts?
V
VMan
It may be helpful if you could perhaps attach a picture of the panels.
I would probably add another piece of timber attached to your rafter to get the second hole on the brackets. but without seeing the job its hard to suggest.
With 37mm rafters I would have hoped they used more than require brackets to help spread the load!
They may have been in a rush, fitting vertical rails to me is easier then horizontal rails as you don't have find so many rafters!!
The landscape panels on horizontal rails, i would want it doing correctly, mainly for warranty purposes as you need to be assure the system will last 25 Years! shouldn't take too long for them to correct.
I would give them a chance when thinks calm down..hopefully you will be on the higher FIT tariff, that's the most important thing at the moment.
I would probably add another piece of timber attached to your rafter to get the second hole on the brackets. but without seeing the job its hard to suggest.
With 37mm rafters I would have hoped they used more than require brackets to help spread the load!
They may have been in a rush, fitting vertical rails to me is easier then horizontal rails as you don't have find so many rafters!!
The landscape panels on horizontal rails, i would want it doing correctly, mainly for warranty purposes as you need to be assure the system will last 25 Years! shouldn't take too long for them to correct.
I would give them a chance when thinks calm down..hopefully you will be on the higher FIT tariff, that's the most important thing at the moment.
S
SRE
Fitting the panels on the short side is ok for some manufactirers but not for all and there's a lot that void the warranty if this is done. It will show you in the installation instructions where the fixing points are.
As long as you have confirmation that the mcs certificate has been issued for the new panels then you should be able to get the panels on the certificate changed ok. The chances are that the MCS staff have been so busy they haven't had time to update the database.
As long as you have confirmation that the mcs certificate has been issued for the new panels then you should be able to get the panels on the certificate changed ok. The chances are that the MCS staff have been so busy they haven't had time to update the database.
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Noshocks
That part number refers to SDS Solar modules (AKA Yonkang in china) , to my knowledge they arent registered for any MCS panels, they must be doing an OEM service for this german supplier hence the extra '5' added to the part number, which wouldent be on the modules.
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moggy1968
Your brackets are inadequately fixed!!
There is an issue with rafter/screw sizes. I believe building regs require that the screw diameter should be no more than 25% of 50% of the rafter width, 4.6mm in your case. The various solar regs require that the minimum screw size is 6mm. The way we get round skinny rafter is to batten either side of the rafter in the area of the fixing with 12 inch battens, effectively widening the rafter. we can always get the 2 fixing screws into even a skinny rafter by careful placement of the bracket and slight angling of the screws. I use 6mm screws from screwfix with a hex shaped head rather than the 8mm ones Krannich supply as these are way too destructive on this rafter thickness.
Of course doing all this takes time.
Why is an electrician working on solar who doesn't like heights and isn't insured to work at height!!!
There is an issue with rafter/screw sizes. I believe building regs require that the screw diameter should be no more than 25% of 50% of the rafter width, 4.6mm in your case. The various solar regs require that the minimum screw size is 6mm. The way we get round skinny rafter is to batten either side of the rafter in the area of the fixing with 12 inch battens, effectively widening the rafter. we can always get the 2 fixing screws into even a skinny rafter by careful placement of the bracket and slight angling of the screws. I use 6mm screws from screwfix with a hex shaped head rather than the 8mm ones Krannich supply as these are way too destructive on this rafter thickness.
Of course doing all this takes time.
Why is an electrician working on solar who doesn't like heights and isn't insured to work at height!!!
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mjanesuk
Moggy,
The roofer did use 6mm screws, just not enough. Having spoken to him I get the impression that he was quite happy with just the one screw, and it had not been explained that this might not be sufficient.
I can see that the batterns may be the better way on my skimpy fink rafters but it would take time, which this firm were clearly not prepared to spend.
Part of the problem is that the Spark and the roofer seemed to be independant and came on different days. One saying its his job... and the other saying no its his...
I think I will have to put a long snagging list together and get a date when the roofer and the electrician are there on the same day. And see if they will do any of it.
If there is lots of work to do anyway, I may also suggest they move the lower sttring of 6 up against the upper string. There is a 350mm gap betwene the two rows of panels at the moment, which seems a bit odd. I think it was purely because the roofer put the lower rails on the roof 1st to be able to stand on them to reach the upper ones. It was not a very comprehensive plan - a rought doodle on the back of a piece of paper - basically 10 portrait at top, 6 landscape at bottom, here are the panels and off you go boys.
The roofer did use 6mm screws, just not enough. Having spoken to him I get the impression that he was quite happy with just the one screw, and it had not been explained that this might not be sufficient.
I can see that the batterns may be the better way on my skimpy fink rafters but it would take time, which this firm were clearly not prepared to spend.
Part of the problem is that the Spark and the roofer seemed to be independant and came on different days. One saying its his job... and the other saying no its his...
I think I will have to put a long snagging list together and get a date when the roofer and the electrician are there on the same day. And see if they will do any of it.
If there is lots of work to do anyway, I may also suggest they move the lower sttring of 6 up against the upper string. There is a 350mm gap betwene the two rows of panels at the moment, which seems a bit odd. I think it was purely because the roofer put the lower rails on the roof 1st to be able to stand on them to reach the upper ones. It was not a very comprehensive plan - a rought doodle on the back of a piece of paper - basically 10 portrait at top, 6 landscape at bottom, here are the panels and off you go boys.
M
moggy1968
yes, but by using 6mm fixings he is still breaching building regs unless he battens the rafters.
personally I wouldn't have either of them back, they're clearly not up to the job. why get a bodger to fix a bodge?
The job has been priced to be complted correctly and to conform to building regs, Part P, MIS, DTI etcetc. The fact it takes a long time to get it to comply is no excuse, shoot the surveyor!!
I do a rough doodle on a bit of cardboard box before I start and it's always accurate, again no excuse, however, if I don't have adjustable roof brackets I do often leave a gap of about 6 inches between upper and lower rows as that disguises any irregularities in the roof shape so the panels look level, even if they aren't quite
personally I wouldn't have either of them back, they're clearly not up to the job. why get a bodger to fix a bodge?
The job has been priced to be complted correctly and to conform to building regs, Part P, MIS, DTI etcetc. The fact it takes a long time to get it to comply is no excuse, shoot the surveyor!!
I do a rough doodle on a bit of cardboard box before I start and it's always accurate, again no excuse, however, if I don't have adjustable roof brackets I do often leave a gap of about 6 inches between upper and lower rows as that disguises any irregularities in the roof shape so the panels look level, even if they aren't quite
M
mjanesuk
OK, Yes I see what you mean with the batterns.
Frankly the surveyor was more of a salesman and didnt appear to know much about what he was fitting. In fact I think he mentioned that he had never been on an installation.
Frankly the surveyor was more of a salesman and didnt appear to know much about what he was fitting. In fact I think he mentioned that he had never been on an installation.
That's a really good idea. We use adjustable on most of our installs but they were hard to get hold of in the rush we have just had - We had a right game getting some of the panels to sit right on some sites.
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moggy1968
yeh it was a move forced on us for the same reason but it actuallly looks really tidy and much quicker than faffing about trying to get adjustable brackets lined up
Your biggest issue, as far as I'm concerned, is the one-screw-fixing problem. I find it absolutely astounding. Using an impact driver means that it is easier to screw the fixing in - it makes absolutely zero difference to how strong the fixing is.
I know it irritates some members when I talk like this but the crew that fitted your install are grossly incompetent and utterly out of their depth. I suspect there are more issues with your install that you aren't even aware of.
I know it irritates some members when I talk like this but the crew that fitted your install are grossly incompetent and utterly out of their depth. I suspect there are more issues with your install that you aren't even aware of.
To be fair, it only takes me half hour or so to adjust the variable brackets to suit. I just level out the lower rail and then use my adjustable level to get the other rails to suit. Of course, some roofs have so much variation in them that you cannot help.
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moggy1968
got to agree. you need to get someone that knows what they are doing to come in and do an assessment and provide a cost to put right which you can then put to the company.
we used to use a spare rail laid accross to level them up which was pretty quick (after having panels on and off in the early days!) but I think now if the roof looked basically flat we would always use non adjustable and leave a small gap between the rows
we used to use a spare rail laid accross to level them up which was pretty quick (after having panels on and off in the early days!) but I think now if the roof looked basically flat we would always use non adjustable and leave a small gap between the rows
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mjanesuk
Hmm. Well yes.
Basically I ran out of options with the local installers I had lined up just before the bombshell dropped. They were not big enough to carry stock or ba able to source new suppliers in time, so I had little option. I did check out all the acreditation details and phoned references, etc. but sometimes it just goes bad.
The roof is only 20 years old so it is pretty level. They did not use adjustable brackets, but it looks OK.
Basically I ran out of options with the local installers I had lined up just before the bombshell dropped. They were not big enough to carry stock or ba able to source new suppliers in time, so I had little option. I did check out all the acreditation details and phoned references, etc. but sometimes it just goes bad.
The roof is only 20 years old so it is pretty level. They did not use adjustable brackets, but it looks OK.
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