Question: Worrying incompetance or just minor niggles in the last minute rush??

[mjanesuk]

Hi,

Had a 4kw system installed on the 3rd, and it has not gone quite how I expected. My uneasy feeling is that by now, reading this forum I might know more than the people who did the work - and that concerns me.

I will list a few issues and provide more details if you think I might have a point..

Big (I think issues)..

• K2 rafter mounts only secured using one bolt (all 3 that I could look at easily) - Krannach say minimum of 2 even in the 37mm fink trusses we have.
• Install manual states that the module junction box has a breather port so needs to beat the upper end of the panel once fixed to the roof (we have 10 portrait with the junction box at the lower end)
• Install manual states only secure the panel by the long edge - we have the remaining 6 secured by the short edge.
• The MD/designer stated one track of one string of 6 and one track of one string of 10 for an SB4000tl-20. I suggested the 10 needed to be split into two strings (this forum) and SMA support agreed. Should I have to design it myself?
• The commisioning involved the Spark stating "its done, I'm off". nothing about how to read/use/isolate if a problem.
• The panels appear to be a rebadged Chinese model though I was sold on the basis of them being a "good German Make" - the German company is rebadging.T
• the module cables are flapping in the wind - rubbing against the tile roof no doubt!

Should I be worried? Are these minor niggles. Why did it take 6 attempts for them to get the right info onto the MCS, Invoice and FIT form..

Your thoughts please, on any of the above

Martin

 

[SolarCity]

Of these issues stated above, by far the biggest problem is how the brackets are fixed - one screw? There will be movement and a fair bit of leverage.

Panels being 'wrong way up' is not a major issue. The panels being secured along short edge is a warranty issue rather than a safety issue.

I don't know about the 4000TL sums but if you had to point this out to the designer then this is worrrying to say the very least.

Commissioning - perhaps someone is coming back to commission?

What module are they?

 

[mjanesuk]

Biggs,

As far as I am aware thay have no plans to come back. Its on and seems to be generating, so thats job done for them!

The question of what panels is an interesting one. They are an SDM 250w SDM standing for Solar Direct group (in Germany) Monocrystaline panel. However, I was surprised to see on the MCS cert that they were refered to as an ZX250MS, with ZNShine as the manufacturer. On asking I was told that they were not German panels, but rebadged Chinese ones and that the MCS was being sorted and they had to be stated as ZNShine modules. Not really very satisfactory.

I spoke to the roofer yesterday about the fixings and he dropped one off saying the holes were too far apart to put in 2 screws but one should be OK as he used an impact driver. I said that the manufacturer said they should drill an new hole in the bracket or attach a battern to the rafter to increase tis width, but he "didnt know nothing about that".

Also two of the panels are scratched,a nd they seems to have left lots of extra DC cable in the runs to the Inverter which I wonder will have an impact on losses.

Martin

 

[mjanesuk]

I should also say that the issue of panels per string was just really because I ran the panal data through the Sunny Design software and it suggested track A with one string of 6 panles and track B with two strings of 5 - which I wpould have thought he would have done.

After confirming this with SMA I even had to get up on the roof and split the 10 into 2 x 5, move the tiles and feed the cables into the roof space as the roofers were gone (modules mounted on day 1) Spark appears on day 2, doesnt like heights, "not insured", etc and does not have enough DC cable to finish the job. So he came back the next day to connect to the CU, trun on and say "bye".

I have asked to see the G83 and response as I am getting worried that corners have been cut big time.

Martin

 

[SRE]

Shocking - can I suggest that you go nowhere near the panels on the roof unless you want to land in the garden at the end of a huge DC shock! You shouldn't be anywhere near the roof and certainly shouldn't be re-stringing panels - apart form the obvious safety issues your installer could turn round and tel you your warranty is void because you've tampered with the installation.

Have you paid?

I don't know the situation with these particular panels but if they haven't got MCS you can't have your Fit payment and if the name on the module isn't the name on the certificate you're goosed.

You don't need to see the G83 but you do need them to explain the situation with the modules and the short side fixing.

 

[langstroth2]

If they are ZNShine ZX250MS then they do have an MCS certificate. However (bearing in mind I'm no expert) I thought these were only available in the UK via one particular distributor who deal direct with the Chinese manufacturer - not some German third party. Perhaps that doesn't matter.

 

[mjanesuk]

Thanks SRE,

Yes, I do now see that my rooftime exploits were not the best decision, but again only from reading this forum and eventually finding what I think might be the installation manual (I have read both the Solar Direct one and the ZNShine one).

I have tried to get hold of MCS and see if the SDM250 has been registered in its own right but of course they are engaged all day.

I will try the German supplier again as they have been reasonably helpful.

I have also not yet paid the final £3k so have some leverage, but not time in terms of the FIT registration pobviously.

Martin

 

[mjanesuk]

Langstroth2,

The problem is that i am sure there was no reference to ZNShine on the panel itself. By the junctionbox it had the SDM250 label. I have no paperwork for either SDM250 or SX250MS, just the installers 'word for it' and giben they could not get: the meter serial no, inverter, panel (said they were HJsolar), my address, Kw output and installation date all correct in six attempts, I am not sure I put much trust in their word.

Martin

 

[SolarCity]

Have you spoke to the firm involved?

They may be unaware and utterly horrified by the standard of work that their men have thrown out.

I'll be honest with you and you may not like it...... in my opinion, your entire mounting system needs redoing.

My advice would be to register for FITs as normal, speak to the firm that installed the system and tell them that you want the system sorting out immediately.

 

[SRE]

If they are ZNShine ZX250MS then they do have an MCS certificate. However (bearing in mind I'm no expert) I thought these were only available in the UK via one particular distributor who deal direct with the Chinese manufacturer - not some German third party. Perhaps that doesn't matter.

I think the point is that the panels are - SDM 250w not ZNShine. Probably ZNshine are providing SDM with panels, have got them ready to sell but haven't got the panels accredited yet. Installer maybe thinks this is ok because they are just ZNshine in disguise but in reality whatever they are if they aren't on the mcs list you aren't going to get fit.

 

[stevie gill]

MJANESUK

If you are trying to find out if your panels are MCS accredited it's fairly straight forward.

Go to The Microgeneration Certification Scheme - Home

Click on the Consumer link, then product search, then search for your particular manufacturer's model number etc.

If you can't see it on there, you may well be up that dirty creek with no means of paddling I'm afraid!!!


Good luck

 

[SRE]

Have you spoke to the firm involved?

They may be unaware and utterly horrified by the standard of work that their men have thrown out.

I'll be honest with you and you may not like it...... in my opinion, your entire mounting system needs redoing.

My advice would be to register for FITs as normal, speak to the firm that installed the system and tell them that you want the system sorting out immediately.

Totally agree

 

[mjanesuk]

SRE,

Thanks for the wake up call. I have just spoken to the supplier (based in Sweden) who has the MCS cert they got on Weds. He is forwarding this to me.

Assuming my installers can get onto the MCS website I assume I can just get them to register the correct panel and then submit the FIT app again? or is this problematic as I have already sent it in? I suppose I just need to explain the error in the email with the form.

Martin

 

[mjanesuk]

Just received an email from the very helpful suppliers..
Product name SDM5-250
Product manufacturer Solar Direct Vertriebs GmbH
Product number (BABT number) BABT 8626-01

So I have a paddle, just need to get to the edge before I get to the waterfall!

I have aired my concerns with the company involved and I am not sure they are that bothered, though I dont think the yet realise they have not had their last installment - so this might change!

 

[mjanesuk]

Stevie,

I tried the route you suggested and cannot seem to find the panels even though I now have the MCS details. The supplier did say they had only received it on Weds this week so I wonder if MCS/BABT or whoever are getting overloaded.

I am hoping that this does not now cause a problem with the generation of the MCS certificate - do you have to select from a list or can you entre the details of the products manually? I cannot get access to that section of the website (or I would have done it myself to make sure!!)

Thanks

 

[bumcrack]

Does 4kw not take you outside of the g83 / 16a per phase threshold ?

 

[flamefix]

From a purely selfish point of view (your own), you need to ensure you get the MCS certificate from the installer and they cannot with hold that on the basis of Payment, otherwise they are in breach of REAL.

Your problems with the system can be resolved after you get your certificate so that you can complete your FIT application. Once you have done that then you can and should pursue.

If you have to pay to ensure you get everything then this is a decision you have to take send them a cheque for example and put a stop on it f you have to pay first, given the time frame you need that cert asap. The problem you face aside from the install is, will the firm come back and put it right or will they close up shop. They could close up shop at anytime, but it would be better for you to have the system registered and claiming FIT, sorting out the issues as secondary either with the firm concerned or someone external, involve REAL and MCS.

 

[mjanesuk]

Flamefix,

The firm have sent me the reciept for full payment (though I have not paid in full) so that is not an issue.

My concern now is that the details above for the panel, the manufacturer and the BABT number are not appearing on the MCS database - though I have a scan of the certificate from BABT to state it was all granted (dated the 9th Dec 2011 - which could be the problem)

I have shouted at the firm and told them to issue me a new MCS cert with the details of the panels changed from the generic import that the supplier has then rebadged and got MCS certification for.

My question to al is - can you as installers enter product, manufacturer and BABT numbers if they are not on the database (ie.e can you manually enter them or do you just pick from a list).

If it is the latter, then am I stuffed even though they have been approved by BABT and MCS?

I agreed I can get the rest sorted afterwards.

Martin

Martin

 

[VMan]

i would ring up an FIT company ( some are open til 8pm) and explain the situation, ask if they get a FIT in with the wrong MCS cert, when they come to process it, ask if you can send them the correct cert.

I think this close to the deadline now, if there is no sign of getting the correct cert by sunday evening, it may be better to just get an application in with incorrect cert rather than no application at all!!

British gas did say to me on the phone that they would allow me to correct errors on their FIT form after it had been submitted and still be eligible for the Higher FIT, but im not 100% they will honour this.

 

[mjanesuk]

VMan,

Have already done this, as I submitted the MCS cert with the ZNShine panel details yesterday, when I was told that this was correct.

It was to British Gas and they said they would allow changes, but seemed to say that the MCS cert was critical, but the rest could be altered.

But, come to think of it, they did say that the minimum was the Cert NUMBER, not the actual certificate. As these numpties have alraedy sent me 5 different versions of the MCS cert (they kept getting it wrong (name, address, meter serial no., install date....) I can safely say that the certificate number stayed the same. so maybe my application, the proof of payment and the MCS number wil be enough to get me through.

I can then speak to MCS on Monday (now closed til then).

Thanks
Martin