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Discuss What Code for this one? in the Periodic Inspection Reporting & Certification area at ElectriciansForums.net

David Prosser

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So there's no problem with the OP's situation because all conductors in the trunking should be made dead before any work on the trunking begins?
that should be covered in the risk assessment and safe system of work for working in (or near to) the trunking.

Would interesting to know if all conductors were isolated before the lid was removed for the initial inspection.
 

Lucien Nunes

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Agree with much of the above. Opinion varies about how dead the contents of a trunking should be before removing the lid; we all know that it's sometimes difficult to achieve or prove. However if special attention is called to this in the O&M, and the SSOW specifically states it must be proven isolated before the trunking lid is opened, the hazard is mitigated. A sticker at one fastener on each lid length that conceals terminals could help call attention to the setup for those who don't read the RAMS.

Is that Rubber? Or is it VIR?
It's VIR, which is mostly rubber!
 

DPG

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I like the idea of a warning sticker near by. Best to be on the safe side.
 

Risteard

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There is definitely a tangible risk here of electric shock or electrocution.

Thankfully the Electro-Technical Council of Ireland's National Rules for Electrical Installations explicitly prohibit joints in trunking to prevent situations like this arising. Perhaps JPEL/64 should consider doing likewise.
 

Vortigern

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Has the cable tapped off of one of the phases suitable protection for overload and is it within the original design load? I would have thought a C2 personally. But the reasoning for a C3 certainly does not escape me and I could see a C3 as being a significant improvement to safety working as well. After all we are certifying whether the installation is safe to continue to use. Not just the (SADCOWS)The risk of accidental contact presents too high a danger especially when it is relatively simple to reduce that risk by basic protection. I wonder what the original reasoning for those terminations were. Were they test points for phase rotation maybe?? Or tapping point (would not think so)?
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Are you sure? looks like waxed cotton outer maybe VIR inside it? Not quite the black VIR I am sometimes confronted with. Having come across that type of cable before if you poke it around (not live of course!) it seems to break apart like some waxed inner core of something but it does not seem like VIR.
 
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Marvo

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20191216_153947[1].jpg

That termination looks well dodgy to me even by African standards. Isn't that screw supposed to be just for holding the brass terminal to the bakealite plate? Also looks like the wire has had a haircut to allow it to get it in there.
 

davesparks

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Are you sure? looks like waxed cotton outer maybe VIR inside it? Not quite the black VIR I am sometimes confronted with. Having come across that type of cable before if you poke it around (not live of course!) it seems to break apart like some waxed inner core of something but it does not seem like VIR.
Yes that is VIR singles which does have a woven cotton outer layer.
VIR cables were made by coating the conductor with rubber with a cotton or other binder in it which was then vulcanised as a whole.
 

Lucien Nunes

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I think these terminals have a slot in the top for a stripped section of ring conductor to slot into without being cut that is then clamped with the larger screw. A separate drilling is provided for the tap conductor, clamped with the smaller screw. The terminal is mounted to the paxolin using countersunk screws from the back tapped into the brass, with their heads insulated from the trunking by another sheet of paxolin at the back. I agree that there might be a strand or two missing from the end of this particular tap cable.

What we normally call VIR singles are actually VIR-insulated, braided and compounded overall. The cotton braid serving protects the rubber from cuts and scrapes, while the compound impregnation stops the cotton absorbing water and preserves it. Plain VIR cable with no serving was not normally used as an installation cable so the term VIR became synonymous with an insulated and served cable.
 

davesparks

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I wonder what the original reasoning for those terminations were. Were they test points for phase rotation maybe?? Or tapping point (would not think so)?
As per the OP it is a 100A ring circuit, which suggests that it is a distribution circuit designed to allow easy connection/disconnection/alteration of what is being fed. So these terminals will B ethe tap off points.
These days we would install a busbar trunking for something like this.
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So this circuit is one of those rare occasions that the term 'ring main' can be correctly used to describe an LV circuit.
 
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that should be covered in the risk assessment and safe system of work for working in (or near to) the trunking.

Would interesting to know if all conductors were isolated before the lid was removed for the initial inspection.
Agree with much of the above. Opinion varies about how dead the contents of a trunking should be before removing the lid; we all know that it's sometimes difficult to achieve or prove. However if special attention is called to this in the O&M, and the SSOW specifically states it must be proven isolated before the trunking lid is opened, the hazard is mitigated. A sticker at one fastener on each lid length that conceals terminals could help call attention to the setup for those who don't read the RAMS.


It's VIR, which is mostly rubber!
On doing the initial EICR the trunking lid wasn't removed, one of the limitations. Only had a look inside when trying to investigate the distribution method to fuse-boards. put the lid back on sharpish. The final circuits are also poor- borrowed neutrals no earths to luminaires etc etc. Have agreed a plan with client to do away with this and start again.
 

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