Discuss What EICR code for plastic trunking in escape routes? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Ian1981

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Welcome to ElectriciansForums.net - The American Electrical Advice Forum
Head straight to the main forums to chat by click here:  American Electrical Advice Forum

The idea of the reg as I have said is a good one, I am all for it, but telling thosands of people their homes are suddenly dangerous and not insurable due to a new reg stinks IMO, I understand all new homes need to adhere to this, and agree with it, but when a EICR is carried out on a home for sale for example and this is put in as a c2, it means the house need to have work done to it before it can get sold and that IMO due to a new reg is wrong, the coding should be a C3 not up to current regulations and no more.
A plaster board ceiling in a dwelling gives 30minutes fire protection so as I said before the likelihood of finding a C2 in a dwelling is slim.
It’s more to do with escape routes in communal areas , offices public buildings etc where cables may run above say a suspended ceiling.
 
Wetroom Store - Network Wetroom Suppliers
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

MDJ

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
A plaster board ceiling in a dwelling gives 30minutes fire protection so as I said before the likelihood of finding a C2 in a dwelling is slim.
It’s more to do with escape routes in communal areas , offices public buildings etc where cable may run above say a susp
.
Yeah I get that bit, about the plasterboard ceiling, I have seen plenty of houses with trunking around them though, usually council, it would mean lots of work to be done and no insurance, hence they C3 rather than C2 which would mean possibly no insurance.
 

MDJ

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
It doesn't have to be a big job though Mike - a catenary wire spanned above a suspended ceiling with a few metal cable ties on it, and lives could be saved. What is so bad about that?
Nothing bad about it, but seriously is it a C2? why not a C1 then? surely it has to be a C3
 

Ian1981

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Yeah I get that bit, about the plasterboard ceiling, I have seen plenty of houses with trunking around them though, usually council, it would mean lots of work to be done and no insurance, hence they C3 rather than C2 which would mean possibly no insurance.
I would not C2 one piece of trunking.
However meters upon meters of cable running above a suspended ceiling unsupported and a serious risk of falling ,I would C2 all day long.
 

Ian1981

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Nothing bad about it, but seriously is it a C2? why not a C1 then? surely it has to be a C3
Not a C1 because there’s no immediate risk of life.
However there’s potentially a risk so C2.
C3 safety recommended but yeah just get on with your life’s and leave it , in a nutshell.

It’s what I believe anyway reading upon it and I haven’t been persuaded to change my views as yet.
Will be interesting when the words escape route is dropped By the 18th edition and all the installation will require non combustible supports.
What to code then?
 
D

Deleted member 26818

Forget about the new Regulation.
This situation has always warranted a code C2, just the same as any other situation which could present a danger.
So now they’ve brought out a specific Regulation for this scenario.
Now not only does it present a danger, it is also a non-compliance.
So give it a code C3 for non-compliance, then give it a code C2 for presenting a danger.
 

GBDamo

-
Supporter
Going to embarrass my self now but, suspended ceiling?

We are talking about the metal grid type suspended by metal wires from the fabric of the building. How badly does this fail in a fire and how quickly?

My brief google on the subject suggested the tile and grid should maintain structural integrity for between 30 and 60 minutes i.e. as long as a plasterboard ceiling.

I get the maxi trunking with twenty T&Es above a fire escape route but above suspended ceilings.

Would you really secure KILK flexis, PIR cables and the like? I have not seen one suspended ceiling that doesn't have a rats nest of data and lighting wires strewn across it.

where does it stop?
 

Ian1981

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
A fire risk assessment is the only way to know for sure however suspended ceilings are often penetrated throughout with various items fixed to/ through them including light fittings,signage etc and broken/missing tiles.
I wouldn’t imagine a suspended ceiling can be used as a fire compartment but again when installing and assessing the fire risk on a building a fire risk assessment will identify the requirements.
It’s obviously been highlighted as an issue.
 
O

Octopus

UK sparks are not trained to undertake fire risks and therefore checks abve ceilings should not be under our remit .......

Just saying
 
T

Toneyz

C2? rollox, there would be hundreds of millions of pounds worth of urgent work required in hundreds of thousands of properties, C3 at best, it was perfectly safe before they updated the Regs lol, the world wasn't going to end then.
But sadly it did for some firefighters.
 

Ian1981

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
UK sparks are not trained to undertake fire risks and therefore checks abve ceilings should not be under our remit .......

Just saying
Because the cables run above and are easily accessible and electrical accessories and equipment are housed often above them then I’m afraid we would be negligent in not lifting up the ceiling tiles in my opinion.
If they were not accessible I’d agree :)
I agree on the fire risk point tho we often need to check that fire protection say between 2 floors in a riser housing electrical equipment such as the consumer units are fire sealed and fire compartments are not breached by cables passing through them.
They go on my report anyway.
 
D

Deleted member 26818

I would not expect a suspended ceiling grid to have any real fire rating.
Whenever I install lights into a suspended ceiling, I try to keep the flexes off the grid by passing them over pipes, ducts, fan coil units etc.
 

Ian1981

-
Mentor
Arms
Esteemed
Quite often you find the original cable tray above the suspended ceilings, all alterations and editions to the wiring are obvious because the altered cables are just flung across the ceiling not supported and even tie wrapped to air conditioning pipework.
Lovely job.
 
O

Octopus

Quite often you find the original cable tray above the suspended ceilings, all alterations and editions to the wiring are obvious because the altered cables are just flung across the ceiling not supported and even tie wrapped to air conditioning pipework.
Lovely job.
Never a truer statement made

why do people think that chucking unsupported cables is a good idea?
 
A

Adam W

With any luck a change to the regulations will bring home the message that it's unacceptable to simply fling cables over the ceiling grid, maybe even slow this 'race to the bottom' where uninitiated clients opt for the cheapest quote where the cowboys are planning to cut corners by not bothering with any containment.

It's actually already in the regs somewhere that you mustn't rely on other services to support your cables, partly because if the pipes or ceiling grid are taken down for an unrelated reason there'll be nothing supporting the cables at all and they'll just drape across the floor.

If the idea that you shouldn't do it because it's lazy and unprofessional isn't enough, maybe the idea that it's also dangerous will help.
 
D

Deleted member 26818

With ceiling grids, the lights, smoke detectors, PIRs, etc. are installed after the ceiling is put up.
Even with step ladders, the height you can reach above the grid is restricted, so if the real ceiling is more than a meter above the false ceiling you are not going to be able to fix cables to anything other than existing services.
There is also the problem, that many lighting systems in false ceilings use Lighting Control Modules which the light fittings are plugged into.
The purpose being they can be unplugged to be replaced so tying the flexes onto containment is not an option.
Worrying about other services being removed is a bit pointless, as to remove them would entail first removing the ceiling grid and light fittings.
 
No cables are exposed as all are contained within trunking throughout the installation.
So you guys are saying I give it a C3 ? Im assuming that just applies to the escape routes (stairwells/corridoors etc) as per 521.11.201 and no coding for trunking across ceilings in all rooms.
Is this reg still valid?
 

Risteard

-
Arms
Esteemed
In most circumstances I apply a C2 for this. There would need to be exceptional circumstances for me to conclude that it wasn't potentially dangerous and therefore only C3.
 
Bulk Workwear - Clothing Suppliers for the Whole Forum Network
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Reply to What EICR code for plastic trunking in escape routes? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Bulk Workwear - Clothing Suppliers for the Whole Forum Network
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
Top Bottom