Discuss What EICR code for plastic trunking in escape routes? in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

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C2? rollox, there would be hundreds of millions of pounds worth of urgent work required in hundreds of thousands of properties, C3 at best, it was perfectly safe before they updated the Regs lol, the world wasn't going to end then.
Tell that to the fire fighters families who lost loved ones due to falling cables and being entangled in them as a resulting investigation concluded that the death of a few fire fighters was caused by said entanglement hence the introduction of the regulation.
I think millions of properties is a bit far considering the requirement is escape routes only and 99% of the time domestic dwellings are not an issue due to the plaster board integrity of the ceilings.
I am all for the regulation and even the new requirement due out when the 18th edition is in full effect.
 
Bollox, the regs have changed thats all, no doubt some fire fighters have seen problems with wires hanging down, but I would say it is minimal, same as plastic DBs, there are millions, but one catches fire and suddenly they all need to be metal. I never said millions of properties, hundreds of thousands I said, open your eyes.
 
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Bollox, the regs have changed thats all, no doubt some fire fighters have seen problems with wires hanging down, but I would say it is minimal, same as plastic DBs, there are millions, but one catches fire and suddenly they all need to be metal. I never said millions of properties, hundreds of thousands I said, open your eyes.
Hundreds of thousands then happy now?
The relevance of the regulation has obviously passed you by.
Wires hanging down!!
 
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I'm aware of the reasons of the regulation, and I understand why the regulation has been put into the bible, but coding a new regulation failure as a C2 which means action is required is total bollox, it must be a C3, I don't care what they suggest, if we coded every new reg which was not up to the latest ammendment as a c2 we would all need to have our homes rewired every 2 years. Regarding telling it to the families, even one fire fighter dying is a tragic, but seriously how many have died due to this? it cannot be so dangerous all of a sudden to make it a C2, if the case then insurance companies must refuse to insure houses, as they are not safe to live in, again total bollox.
 
Bollox, the regs have changed thats all, no doubt some fire fighters have seen problems with wires hanging down, but I would say it is minimal, same as plastic DBs, there are millions, but one catches fire and suddenly they all need to be metal. I never said millions of properties, hundreds of thousands I said, open your eyes, dick wipe.
Their names were Jim Shears and Alan Bannon.
This isn't someone's perception or scaremongering, it was an actual thing which happened, at Shirley Towers in Southampton:
Fire deaths lead to safety change - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-30845937
Perhaps this is only seen as an important issue around here due to it's proximity.
 
As I said even one death a tragic situation, but lets be sensible here, as I said vertually every house in the country could be considered dangerous if cabling not secured properly near entrances and exits, the IEE, IMO have done right by including this new reg into the bible, but a C2 for this, nah not in my view, a C3 yes, but not a C2, total bollox.
 
It doesn't have to be a big job though Mike - a catenary wire spanned above a suspended ceiling with a few metal cable ties on it, and lives could be saved. What is so bad about that?
 
The idea of the reg as I have said is a good one, I am all for it, but telling thosands of people their homes are suddenly dangerous and not insurable due to a new reg stinks IMO, I understand all new homes need to adhere to this, and agree with it, but when a EICR is carried out on a home for sale for example and this is put in as a c2, it means the house need to have work done to it before it can get sold and that IMO due to a new reg is wrong, the coding should be a C3 not up to current regulations and no more.
 
I'm aware of the reasons of the regulation, and I understand why the regulation has been put into the bible, but coding a new regulation failure as a C2 which means action is required is total bollox, it must be a C3, I don't care what they suggest, if we coded every new reg which was not up to the latest ammendment as a c2 we would all need to have our homes rewired every 2 years. Regarding telling it to the families, even one fire fighter dying is a tragic, but seriously how many have died due to this? it cannot be so dangerous all of a sudden to make it a C2, if the case then insurance companies must refuse to insure houses, as they are not safe to live in, again total bollox.
In the 60s lighting circuits here not required to have cpc’s installed.
I can only assume common sense or perhaps the amount of people receiving electric shocks prompted a drastic safety improvement.
Would you C3 this if exposed conductive parts where connected to the circuit without a cpc present?
As for the fire fighters, a change to the regulation and actually identifying a potential risk and danger may just save someone’s life during a fire and I think that’s worth it.
What’s someone’s life worth to you?
 
we are not talking about cabling without CPCs, and do not insult my intelligence about asking what I think someones life is worth, I have clarified my view.
 
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The idea of the reg as I have said is a good one, I am all for it, but telling thosands of people their homes are suddenly dangerous and not insurable due to a new reg stinks IMO, I understand all new homes need to adhere to this, and agree with it, but when a EICR is carried out on a home for sale for example and this is put in as a c2, it means the house need to have work done to it before it can get sold and that IMO due to a new reg is wrong, the coding should be a C3 not up to current regulations and no more.
A plaster board ceiling in a dwelling gives 30minutes fire protection so as I said before the likelihood of finding a C2 in a dwelling is slim.
It’s more to do with escape routes in communal areas , offices public buildings etc where cables may run above say a suspended ceiling.
 
A plaster board ceiling in a dwelling gives 30minutes fire protection so as I said before the likelihood of finding a C2 in a dwelling is slim.
It’s more to do with escape routes in communal areas , offices public buildings etc where cable may run above say a susp
.

Yeah I get that bit, about the plasterboard ceiling, I have seen plenty of houses with trunking around them though, usually council, it would mean lots of work to be done and no insurance, hence they C3 rather than C2 which would mean possibly no insurance.
 
It doesn't have to be a big job though Mike - a catenary wire spanned above a suspended ceiling with a few metal cable ties on it, and lives could be saved. What is so bad about that?
Nothing bad about it, but seriously is it a C2? why not a C1 then? surely it has to be a C3
 
Yeah I get that bit, about the plasterboard ceiling, I have seen plenty of houses with trunking around them though, usually council, it would mean lots of work to be done and no insurance, hence they C3 rather than C2 which would mean possibly no insurance.
I would not C2 one piece of trunking.
However meters upon meters of cable running above a suspended ceiling unsupported and a serious risk of falling ,I would C2 all day long.
 
Nothing bad about it, but seriously is it a C2? why not a C1 then? surely it has to be a C3
Not a C1 because there’s no immediate risk of life.
However there’s potentially a risk so C2.
C3 safety recommended but yeah just get on with your life’s and leave it , in a nutshell.

It’s what I believe anyway reading upon it and I haven’t been persuaded to change my views as yet.
Will be interesting when the words escape route is dropped By the 18th edition and all the installation will require non combustible supports.
What to code then?
 
Forget about the new Regulation.
This situation has always warranted a code C2, just the same as any other situation which could present a danger.
So now they’ve brought out a specific Regulation for this scenario.
Now not only does it present a danger, it is also a non-compliance.
So give it a code C3 for non-compliance, then give it a code C2 for presenting a danger.
 
Going to embarrass my self now but, suspended ceiling?

We are talking about the metal grid type suspended by metal wires from the fabric of the building. How badly does this fail in a fire and how quickly?

My brief google on the subject suggested the tile and grid should maintain structural integrity for between 30 and 60 minutes i.e. as long as a plasterboard ceiling.

I get the maxi trunking with twenty T&Es above a fire escape route but above suspended ceilings.

Would you really secure KILK flexis, PIR cables and the like? I have not seen one suspended ceiling that doesn't have a rats nest of data and lighting wires strewn across it.

where does it stop?
 
A fire risk assessment is the only way to know for sure however suspended ceilings are often penetrated throughout with various items fixed to/ through them including light fittings,signage etc and broken/missing tiles.
I wouldn’t imagine a suspended ceiling can be used as a fire compartment but again when installing and assessing the fire risk on a building a fire risk assessment will identify the requirements.
It’s obviously been highlighted as an issue.
 

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