Altered ring main, now a DIFFERENT circuit is not working?

[dhclec]

I’ve just altered a ring main by taking 1 leg out of the board and taking it to a spur (then taking a leg back), to add a socket in. After doing so I’ve turned the board back on and everything is working as it should, other than cooker circuit (A radial feeding the cooker/hob, extractor fan and a heater. After checking ALL the connections in the board are ok and there are no exposed cables etc, I’m left baffled.

I only started out about 12 months ago so I’m not sure if this is just me being stupid and naive or if I need to call in some help. Any ideas?

 

[westward10]

Is the protective device definitely clamped to the busbar.

 

[dhclec]

Is the protective device definitely clamped to the busbar.

Definitely. I replaced the busbar last week after someone thought it would be a good idea to shove some twisted copper cable between the breakers where it had snapped... But the connection from the RCD to busbar is fine now

 

[Octopus]

Op .... do a R1 + R2 then a Rn + R2 on your “dead” circuit and see what readings you get ...

 

[dhclec]

Op .... do a R1 + R2 then a Rn + R2 on your “dead” circuit and see what readings you get ...

I’ll look into that. I’ll need to figure out where the end of the circuit is, as knowing what the rest of the place is wired like, there’s probably something random spurred off it. Whole reason I did this is because the socket I just added to ring was originally spurred off a 8.5kw shower switch... If I get any abnormal readings then I’ll add them to the thread, thanks

 

[Barnaby Stedman]

When you say 'not working' do you mean that the MCB is on but nothing on the circuit is live? Have you done a voltage test at an outlet on that circuit - e.g. one of the appliances?

 

[Octopus]

I’ll look into that. I’ll need to figure out where the end of the circuit is,

In your OP you stated that the cooker, extractor and heater aren't working - so I would check one of these points to establish what IS connected ......... then go from there. Finding the "end point", whilst being useful, isn't critical at this stage.

Let us know how you get on.

 

[dhclec]

When you say 'not working' do you mean that the MCB is on but nothing on the circuit is live? Have you done a voltage test at an outlet on that circuit - e.g. one of the appliances?

So the MCB is still on, yes. I haven’t had a chance to carry out any tests yet as the problem occurred when I finished the job late last night. But I’ll be back to carry out R1/R2 etc. and voltage tests at the outlets. I’ll let you know how I get on.

 

[Intoelectrics]

If everything was working fine prior to you doing the alterations then you surely have disturbed something during the works, i'd be very surprised its just sheer coincidence. Either way, its most likely to be a loose or disconnected conductor. As Murdoch says its going to be a case of process of elimination.

 

[dhclec]

If everything was working fine prior to you doing the alterations then you surely have disturbed something during the works, i'd be very surprised its just sheer coincidence. Either way, its most likely to be a loose or disconnected conductor. As Murdoch says its going to be a case of process of elimination.

There’s no doubt it’s something to do with the alteration. But I checked and checked again in regards to the connections in the board and I can’t see how I would’ve loosened/disconnected a conductor anywhere else as during the cable run I didn’t come across any other cables/circuits. I’m going to carry out some tests and find all the points in the circuit. I’ll check the connections of them all too and I’ll let you know if I find anything, thanks

 

[PEG]

Hi,did you check personally,that the circuits now "off",were working originally?

 

[GBDamo]

Hate to suggest this, but is it possible in mounting your new socket/FCU you have drilled through the cooker circuit.

Maybe do a full set of continuity test on the cooker circuit, see if a break has occurred.

Then check your work hasn't caused it then ask the customer if they've been doing any DIY recently.

Wouldn't be the first time a customer has asked for a relatively simple job knowing there is another fault they're hoping you'll resolve.

 

[Barnaby Stedman]

Hate to suggest this, but is it possible in mounting your new socket/FCU you have drilled through the cooker circuit.

Maybe do a full set of continuity test on the cooker circuit, see if a break has occurred.

Then check your work hasn't caused it then ask the customer if they've been doing any DIY recently.

Wouldn't be the first time a customer has asked for a relatively simple job knowing there is another fault they're hoping you'll resolve.

Is it an rcd protected installation?

 

[dhclec]

Hi,did you check personally,that the circuits now "off",were working originally?

No. However, the house I’m working on is my brothers. He used it earlier that day, I take his word for it. I should probably check next time though, thanks

 

[dhclec]

Hi,did you check personally,that the circuits now "off",were working originally?

No. However I’m doing this work at a relatives house who told me they were using it earlier that day - I take there word for it. I’ll definitely check myself next time though, thanks

 

[dhclec]

Hate to suggest this, but is it possible in mounting your new socket/FCU you have drilled through the cooker circuit.

Maybe do a full set of continuity test on the cooker circuit, see if a break has occurred.

Then check your work hasn't caused it then ask the customer if they've been doing any DIY recently.

Wouldn't be the first time a customer has asked for a relatively simple job knowing there is another fault they're hoping you'll resolve.

Possibly. I’m carrying out some tests tonight, hopefully, so I should have a rough answer as to what’s happened. Both the spur and the socket are located away from where I think the cables were, and surely this would trip the breaker if I’d gone through it? But like I say I’ll do some tests and let you know, could be right. Thanks

 

[dhclec]

Is it an rcd protected installation?

Yes. Everything other than lighting is protected by an RCD

 

[SparkyAndGeorge]

put some photos on here of the work youve done and the board

 

[Squid]

Put it all back to how it was and see if it works......

 

[SJD]

Not sure if I followed totally exactly what has been done.

I would check first there is outgoing power on the non-working circuit, i.e. MCB is actually working (had a few fail after switching off for other work), busbar prong in cage clamp (Wylex ones especially).

 

[dhclec]

Not sure if I followed totally exactly what has been done.

I would check first there is outgoing power on the non-working circuit, i.e. MCB is actually working (had a few fail after switching off for other work), busbar prong in cage clamp (Wylex ones especially).

That’s my plan. I didn’t have any testers with me when problem occurred but will be checking this later on. And yeah I will double check the busbar too, which is Wylex. Thanks for advice

 

[dhclec]

Put it all back to how it was and see if it works......

I will definitely do this if I can’t the problem. Thanks

 

[Fitzy]

Dom, just take it easy and be methodical in your testing and write everything down. I’m the same as you, only been qualified for 14 months, so whenever I go to a job that sounds difficult, I write done everything I do as I go along, so if things go wrong like you’ve just found out, it’s easier to retrace your steps.

Ignore the negative replies mate, if you bite, they’ll just bait your more and more, just take heed from the the guys offering you advice.

Oh and by the way, good luck mate.

 

[dhclec]

Dom, just take it easy and be methodical in your testing and write everything down. I’m the same as you, only been qualified for 14 months, so whenever I go to a job that sounds difficult, I write done everything I do as I go along, so if things go wrong like you’ve just found out, it’s easier to retrace your steps.

Ignore the negative replies mate, if you bite, they’ll just bait your more and more, just take heed from the the guys offering you advice.

Oh and by the way, good luck mate.

Thanks for the advice, I’ll take that on board. And thanks mate, really appreciate it. Good luck to your newly qualified self as well, all the best

 

[123]

Definitely. I replaced the busbar last week after someone thought it would be a good idea to shove some twisted copper cable between the breakers where it had snapped... But the connection from the RCD to busbar is fine now

Is the MCB for the cooker circuit properly clamped onto busbar?

 

[dhclec]

Is the MCB for the cooker circuit properly clamped onto busbar?

Yes. Checked and checked again. I’ll check again but don’t think that’s the problem

 

[westward10]

Have you been back and not resolved it.

 

[richy3333]

Do a job, turn it on and use the bang test. Walk away. Does nobody actually test their work anymore before coming to the forum to get the fault diagnosed?!

 

[spirited away]

have you knocked the neutral in the consumer unit so it looks like its in but it isn't properly connected.

 

[GBDamo]

In fa

Do a job, turn it on and use the bang test. Walk away. Does nobody actually test their work anymore before coming to the forum to get the fault diagnosed?!

In fairness it's not the circuit that the OP worked on that is faulty.

I've been thinking, dangerous I know, and cannot see how this would have shown up under the testing required.

Unless, that is, you do a full EICR on completion of minor works?

 

[telectrix]

my bet is busbar behind cage clamp on non-working circuit.

 

[Welchyboy1]

You should hopefully just need a voltage tester to sort this one out with a bit of luck

1. Test you have 230v coming through live side of the mcb, if not ,either as said above you have not picked up the bus bar when re fixing it underneath the mcb, or mcb has failed to reset, may just need resetting may need to be replaced

If you can, get right under the cu with a torch and check the busbar connection is definatly in the mcb, wiggling the mcb is not sufficient, my money is also on this!

2. Double check the neutral connection for the circuit is tight at the cu bar, sometimes these are loose and you have disturbed it working on the board(make sure its tight, a loose nuetral on a cooker circuit is not good!)

3. If 1 and 2 are good go to the various points of your circuit that are not working and test for voltage between L-N, L-E
(What are these readings) although you have not been working on these items and should not be the problem the results may indicate a supply in but no neutral etc

4. If youve got power going out of the cu, but no power at any of these points then you have a broken/damaged circuit, loose connection or switch, isolator rcd, etc somewhere thats been over looked maybe?

Make sure you report back to what the problem was! Lol

 

[GBDamo]

Make sure you report back to what the problem was! Lol

No matter how embarrassing.

 

[Zerax]

No matter how embarrassing.

Especially if it's embarrassing !!

 

[DPG]

Have you got any actual test figures yet? What tester do you have?

 

[dhclec]

Breaker had broken. Busbar connection was fine, which is what a lot of people said it could be but it was live at the incoming terminal, dead at the outgoing. Breaker replaced, all sorted. Thanks to most for all your advice/comments

 

[DPG]

Glad to hear you found it. Out of interest what were your end-to-end figures for the ring circuit?

 

[Welchyboy1]

No problem..... invoice in post lol..

 

[Jjc]

Is the protective device definitely clamped to the busbar.

Why bother answering these questions?